Facts:
#1:
On one hand, we have the 5 Gods of Tyria.
On the other, we have the "evil" gods:
Dhuum; usurped by Grenth as Lord of the Underworld.#2
Menzies; Balthazar's brother
Abaddon; the Fallen god trapped in the Realm Of Torment.
The Abaddon worshipping-Margonites waged a war a thousand years ago against the worshippers of the 5 Gods in the Northern Plains of Elona. They were boosted by "horrific transformations" that gave them powers. i.e wings, many eyes, and the ability to animate suits of armor, i.e the enchanted.
The Margonites were defeated, and Abaddon was imprisoned in the RoT.
This would have occurred around 70AE (mouvelian calendar)
#3
The Realm of Torment is a pit in the Underworld, controlled by Grenth. the Previous Lord of the Underworld was Dhuum, who was "destroyed" by Grenth. So, in effect, Grenth is Abaddon's Jailer.
The Underworld is currently being invaded by Demons. The force behind these demons is unknown/unnnamed.
#4
Menzies pits his Shadow army against the Balthazar's Eternal army in the Fissure of Woe, in a war to control this realm.
#5
The Flameseeker prophecies claimed that whoever controls the scepter of Orr, would have control over the Titans. It also claims that the Mursaat will be destroyed by the chosen and the Door of Komalie will be opened. The Scepter of Orr is found by the White Mantle in the jungles of Kryta.
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Questions:
- Why was Abaddon jailed?
- Where is Dhuum?
- Are the Margonites the predecessors of the Mursaat?
- Why did the Mursaat want the Scepter of Orr?
- Why were the Mursaat guarding the Door of Komalie against the heroes of Tyria?
- Why would Glint ask us to release, then defeat the titans?
Answers:
Why was Abaddon jailed?
After the 5 Gods left Arah, and placed the bloodstones in the Caldera of the Volcano, they left the Mortal Realm and went into the Rifts. There is no mention on whether Abaddon himself went into the rifts with the other Gods.
Abaddon seized this oppertunity to claim the mastery of Magic by retrieving the bloodstones. He did this by erupting the volcano.
Soon after, he used his powers to grant the margonites tremendous power through "horrific transformations". *
He told them of ascension, but not how. This would be essential if he were to take the fight to the 5 Gods themselves in the rifts. He would also use the Margonites as his mortal army to conquer the rest of Tyria.
Abaddon and his army were defeated, and for his assault on the Gods and races of Tyria he was thrown into the Realm of Torment.
Where is Dhuum?
Our information about Dhuum comes from the Reaper of the Chaos Planes.
"Before the time of Grenth, when death was ruled by a cruel and unjust god, there stood a tower and a throne on this very plain. But Grenth rose up and destroyed the one called Dhuum and shattered down his tower, leaving only these storms of chaos as a reminder of the power that once held dominion here. My vigil over these lands was broken for a time, and I can feel a resurgence of the old taint. Four horsemen approach, riders of Dhuum. Destroy them before they can reclaim this place and throw the underworld into chaos!""Them" and "They" refers to the 4 Riders of Dhuum - not Dhuum himself. Thus is can be postulated that Dhuum himself will not return, but the malice of his servants is what drives them to attempt the Demonic invasion of the Underworld.
Another linguistic cue is that Dhuum was "destroyed", while Abaddon was simply "defeated".
Are the Margonites the predecessors of the Mursaat?
The Margonites are the best candidates to be the predecessors of the Mursaat because of their Anthropological features, and the ability to animate armor into Warriors to serve as the front line. This has been documented in the 8th Compendium and QA's own survey of the Mursaat. As the inheritors of Margonites religion and culture, we should also be aware that they would worship the same God.
Why did the Mursaat want the Scepter of Orr?
To prevent the Titan army from falling into their enemies' hands. If the Scepter is found, then that means the Flameseeker prophecies are coming true. It is safe to say that the Mursaat would have kept the Scepter for themselves, perhaps even using it to usurp domination of Tyria (world) from the 5 Gods.
Why were the Mursaat guarding the Door of Komalie against the heroes of Tyria?
The Heroes of Tyria were revealed to be Chosen, and thus escaped the vigilance of the white mantle. This fact was brought to our attention by Vizier Kilbron, who knew of this beforehand and used us to destroy the mursaat.
By guarding the Door of Komalie, the Mursaat sought to keep their superweapon safe from being used/destroyed by their enemies until they could properly control it themselves with the scepter.
Also, by keeping the soul batteries charged with the blood of the chosen, they were slowly eliminating the very people mentioned in the Flameseeker Prophecies that would destroy them.
Why would Glint ask us to release, then defeat the titans?
To use the Titans against the mursaat. The southern Shiverpeaks show the remains of the mursaat in the face of the overwhelming Titan invasion. Defeating the Titan invasion was simply an unfortunate side effect of destroying the mursaat.
---------------------------------------------------------------------|||I have a slightly different theory regarding Abaddon.
Is it possible he was banished for attempting to set himself up as the only god? Or perhaps he tried to reveal some secret the gods were hiding? Then there is also the possibility he was just one badass and did it for the heck of it.
One thing that disturbs me is that everytime something new is told to us, we suddenly relate it to the Mursaat, when evidence doesn't really point that way. Although I think you wrote a very nice paper, and actually used evidence to support your hypothesis, I think we are making stipulations about the Mursaat that just aren't true (ie, making stretches). It is important to remember that there are many other plausible races the Mursaat could have been: The Seekers, the Mage Lords, one of the hundreds of others who tried to Ascend and failed or just never were heard from again.
Also, how do the Seers factor into this?
Another thing, the Scepter of Orr wasn't just found lying about in the jungle, it was in a tomb, near the Krytan Royal Family's. That has to count for something.
Finally, how does the Lich factor into this? We can't just dismiss him and his actions against the White Mantle and Mursaat. It was quite obviously planned that he attacked these two groups.|||Neither Dhumm or Menzine are "dead". Infact if you recall Dhumm made an appearence during the 4th of july celebration while bringing minions of *technically* abadon.
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* Why was Abaddon jailed?
* Where is Dhuum?
* Are the Margonites the predecessors of the Mursaat?
* Why did the Mursaat want the Scepter of Orr?
* Why were the Mursaat guarding the Door of Komalie against the heroes of Tyria?
* Why would Glint ask us to release, then defeat the titans?
Ill try and take a stab at this based on what I know. Most likely and according to the booklets, Abaddon much like promethesius <sp?> brought the forbidden arts (magic) to the people outside the Rifts.
They go into large amounts of detail where magic was universal and existed prior to the induction of the 5 tyrian gods. It also says that they sealed this magic within the blood stone then shattered it thus seperating the magic classes from one another.
The blood stone has something to do with the banishment of Abaddon in the realm of torment. My guess is the following:
Dhumm is the cruel old god of death/pestilence (replaced by Grenth, newest of the 5 gods)
Menzine is the old god of war (replaced by Balthazar)
Abaddon is the origional god of chaos (replaced by Lyssa)
They also make several references that these old gods are somehow related ot the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. ie Dhumm is Death, Menzine is War, Abaddon is chaos/conquest. The only one that is missing is "famine" which could be introduced later.
In addition to this reference these three outcast gods are always seen together as their minions are always seen together in the same zones.
For example:
The Coldfire Drakes look a great deal alike to Menzine's shadow army
The necrid horsmen are direct minions of Dhumm
While it isnt implied directally the Terrorweb Dryders, especially the "Grasps Of Darkness" are tied directally to Abaddon.
Not only this but in the second trailer released for nightfall they show a huuuuge shadow army troll that is common in FoW in what appears to be the gate to the realm of torment. These same mobs that you find invading the underworld are also present in ToPK.
Also they make specific reference in nightfall that "the time of the new gods is at an end". Most likely this scenerio implies that the old gods have decided to ban together to defeat the new gods. Most likely this is the Apocalypse that has been mentioned many times.
As for the mursaat they are more of a neutral power. If anything they would be considered good not evil. They only view humans with contempt (specifically non white mantle) because they have forseen that mankind will bring the Apocalypse by ultimately destroying the 5 new gods.|||Ok, first of all Sentenial, it is Menzies, not Mezine. Secondly, the fact about Menzies being an old god, and same for Abbadon, lacks evidence. Furthermore, how are the necrid horseymanys "direct minions"? Same for the Dryders and Abbadon.
For the Mursaat, neutral powers can't be happy about the Apocalypse unless they are going to withstand it, which you don't mension. I think the KISS (Keep it simple stupid) applies. =D
I got a few questions, the skeleton army (FoW) is or is not related to the Tyrian undead? Are the (ToPK) demons (also the ones in the DF and in Nightfall) related to either of the above?
If the demons aren't related to undead or skeleton army, then perhaps they are somewhat allied with Menzies' shadow army? Or are they 4 different and independant forces?|||Am I missing something? Margonites Abaddon followers? What?
Realm of Torment? Pit in UW? What says that?
Agree wit hthe Dhuum destroyed personally. The Mursaat just wanted to make sure the Titans remained locked forever which is why they wanter the Sceptre. Also wh ythey defended the door. Mursaat culture REVOLVES around keepign the Titans locked.|||Hmm
The Mursaat keep the door closed because Glint said (flameseeker prophecies) whatever is behind it will destroy them all.
Glint asked us to open the door because the Titans are the only things capable of destroying the mursaat.
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They also make several references that these old gods are somehow related ot the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse. ie Dhumm is Death, Menzine is War, Abaddon is chaos/conquest. The only one that is missing is "famine" which could be introduced later.
Where is this reference? the only one i could find was in the 4 Riders of Dhuum: named , comically, Ghozer Dhuum, Kazhad Dhuum, Madruk Dhuum and Thul Za Dhuum. These riders have no connection with Menzies or Abaddon.|||Well, so far as we know. It may be revealed there is a connection between Abaddon and Dhuum, which, honestly, I still believe, as all that evidence we collected doesn't just disappear because the guy's name is Abaddon now.|||I have never gotten far in the Underworld, but is the place where the Realm of Torment supposed to be, close to the Reaper who starts the Rider quest?|||Quote:
Am I missing something? Margonites Abaddon followers? What?
I've quoted the source for this information. I was pleased by its revelation tbh :D
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Realm of Torment? Pit in UW? What says that?
I thought i had included this in the Facts section: The reaper of the bone pits explains where and what the Realm of Torment is during the Quest: Imprisoned Spirits.
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Mursaat culture REVOLVES around keepign the Titans locked.
This is a bit unsubstantiated, but I'd like to see why their culture "Revolves" around it if you can provide evidence|||I wouldn't say Mursaat culture revolves around the Door, I'd say that they hav devouted a substantial amount of their military to guarding it.
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