Alright, first off we have the supposed Mursaat architecture and the Eye of Janthir. Yes, the Eye of Janthir is to be related to the Mursaat since it is shown to be theirs in the Divinity Coast mission and that there is an Isle of Janthir that it comes from. Here is where we decided to think they slapped it on every last thing that they built or at least some like to believe. If I remember correctly one of the first relations revealed was the comparison with the armor of the Mursaat and the Forgotten armor in the Crystal Desert. This, I believe, is where the madness of the Eye began.
We have this symbol of an Eye that has been attributed to the Mursaat in various areas. One of these eyes is shown below in the pic.
Ok, so that eye-looking symbol is to be attributed to the Eye of Janthir..
See the above pic? That is from Ashford Abbey in Pre-Searing and to be credited to Barinthus. However, that isn't my point by any means necessary. We, as in the people of the Lore Forum, attributed this to the Eye of Janthir. This to me is where we went to far, this is where we need to meet our nice friend stop. This is illogical, why would an Abbey in Ascalon, a kingdom made up of humans, have a Mursaat symbol.
Oh, and to the supposed eye on the Underworld pillars, the relation was made due to this pic. (Both the pillar and this next one are thanks to Eratimus.)
We see the above in Kryta near a normal little house. We see it again in Divinity Coast where we get the Eye of Janthir and this is where the first connection was made so far as I know. Now to put that aside for a moment once more we must look at the temple in Lornar's Pass of Grenth and the temple in the Falls of Balthazar. The connection was first made that the Temple of Balthazar in the Falls was related to the Mursaat due to the eye all over it and their occupation in the Maguuma Jungle.
Here's a pic making one comparison (Quintus to thank for this one):
So most of the people reading this right now may be thinking, alright, so what? Thing is, we have some eyes here and there, now to connect a few dots here and there. First off we find the eye in several locations related to the religious belief in Tyria. Temple of Balthazar, Temple of Grenth, an Abbey in Pre-Searing Ascalon..Now if you can't figure it out, those are all places of some religious relations. The biggest yet least expected link to make is that since the eye symbol is found on the Abbey, in an area full of humans who have never met the Mursaat, is that those Temples are all just built by humans. The eyes being their symbol to tell believers that although the gods left Tyria they are still watching over you.
Now this isn't going to discount the Eye of Janthir's importance, but I think it might be better to view it in that way and then look at the Eye of Janthir as being more related to Grenth than those temples. Think of it this way, the Mursaat use that symbol in the same way humans used it, it's their way of showing they are watching you.
Sure, there's still the fact that the decorations on the temples look somewhat similar to White Mantle armor, but consider it more like the Mursaat simply found the Temple of Balthazar in the Maguuma Jungle. They found the decorations on it to their liking and forged the White Mantle armor with it still there.
If that isn't good enough for you you could think of it as the White Mantle's way of making them not look like just a bunch of rowdy soldiers. They wanted to look more elaborate, awe inspiring to the masses, they wanted others to want to join in their beliefs and cause. It wouldn't be to surprising really, if you wanted people to join your organization, you want to give them a good impression. That armor would surely give the right impression if you were an everyday Krytan just walking around in my mind.
Kids like things for their looks, if it looks cool they want it. I'd imagine some little Krytan kids would view that as cool and want to become a member of the White Mantle when they're older.
This is not to discount any of Quintus's work or comparisons. This is simply my way of saying if you see an eye, don't automatically say, "Oh hey! Eye of Janthir! Must be Mursaat!"
Ah well, you can believe me or simply shove this to the side as a thought if any other evidence breaks the eye being our main symbol of Mursaat architecture.
Side-note to Quintus: Thought I was going to put in something with the bridge in the Realm of Torment, but since I didn't I guess this would go in the Tyrian Lore section.|||If it's Grenth's symbol as you suggest, why does it appear on two temples of Balthazar, rather than the one of Grenth? Also, why is the Eye near.....you know......the Eye in Shaemoor. Also, Odran's portals are in these places. Confirmed Mursaat architecture (such as the door behind the statue in HA) appears in these areas as well.
Here we have a picture from London, England:
Please ignore the eagle's and American flags. It could be that the American's just saw that and decided to adopt it as their own. It is in London, so it is obviously not American, since it would have to be in the US for that to be so, and even then, it's sketchy. (In actuality, this is the American Embassy, which is considered American soil).
When you remove something from context, it is easy to attribute it to anything.|||We also see examples of Mursaat architecture on the Ring of Fire Islands. Unless they took it from the area, why would they have buildings of metal like that of the temples? (Yes, it was before they found that stuff the buildings are built of on the Ring of Fire Islands. Right...)
Though really, how can you believe that's the Eye of Janthir on an abbey, in a kingdom of humans that's never encountered the Mursaat?|||Did anybody stop to think that perhaps the Eye of Janthir could have different meanings for different cultures in Tyria?|||Quote:
We also see examples of Mursaat architecture on the Ring of Fire Islands. Unless they took it from the area, why would they have buildings of metal like that of the temples? (Yes, it was before they found that stuff the buildings are built of on the Ring of Fire Islands. Right...)
Though really, how can you believe that's the Eye of Janthir on an abbey, in a kingdom of humans that's never encountered the Mursaat?
We don't know if the Ascalonians are the ones that built the Abbey. It's very close near the Catacombs, which looks like it's a city drawn under the ground (Abaddon? He did pull down another temple into the RoT). It's possible the Abbey is a part of the Catacombs not drawn under.|||In my opinion, there is no way the Catacombs were built by Ascalonians. The architecture is completely different. Also, we see elements of both the Ring of Fire islands and the Crystal Desert there. One is confirmed to be Mursaat, and one is speculated to have been a Mursaat area at one time.
Is it so hard to believe that the Mursaat may have once had a huge empire that spanned Tyria, or that they had outposts in different parts of Tyria?
I'd also like to point out the prescence of the giant Wizard's Tower that has a Tower Golem. The whole structure is green (like the theorized Mursaat temples) and looks like a giant version of a Mursaat portal with a castle on top. It also has rune pillars similar to those found in the Maguuma Jungle. Furthermore, there is a White Mantle tent in Pre-Searing Ascalon.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Mursaat may have, at one time, been in Ascalon.|||Quote:
If it's Grenth's symbol as you suggest, why does it appear on two temples of Balthazar, rather than the one of Grenth? Also, why is the Eye near.....you know......the Eye in Shaemoor. Also, Odran's portals are in these places. Confirmed Mursaat architecture (such as the door behind the statue in HA) appears in these areas as well.
Here we have a picture from London, England:
Please ignore the eagle's and American flags. It could be that the American's just saw that and decided to adopt it as their own. It is in London, so it is obviously not American, since it would have to be in the US for that to be so, and even then, it's sketchy. (In actuality, this is the American Embassy, which is considered American soil).
When you remove something from context, it is easy to attribute it to anything.
i was gona shout US EMBASSY! coz i work in london....
anywho bk to topic
im gona side with QA here because that symbole is on pretty much every place a murrsat is and the catacombes are so diffrent to the rest of pre searing that it would hav to be eather a) built before ascalon became a nation or b) was un earthed somehow which means they didnt build it or c)
they decided to dig a bunch of tunnels and add a few temples inside
im gona guess on b) because asford abbey is just that an abbey! so that means there will be alot of people being buried over time so i think they found the area and simpley placed the dead in tombs inside instead of building it them selves.
the only race old enough and organized at the time would hav been the murssat.|||I want to clarify that I don't believe the Mursaat built the Catacombs. I think it is likely they are either a Forgotten or whomever built Arborstone structure, but my point is, there are more than simply humans at work in Ascalon.|||I think Gmr Leon made some good points, and i agree mostly with what he had so say. I agree with Quintus that it's SOOO doubtful that Mursaat had anything to do with the catacombs (where did that first come up, anyway? somewhere AGES ago i think, if someone can find the thread i'd be thankful), but that something else may have influenced the stuff down there. It's such a mysterious place- Pity it didn't get elaborated much on, but it does let us keep a very mysterious place unsolved, which i kinda like :)
Quote:
Confirmed Mursaat architecture (such as the door behind the statue in HA)
NO, this is still not PROVEN, but it is getting quoted as if it has been!|||At this point you are just disputing to dispute, rather than looking at the facts.
Temple of the Unseen:
Note the door (image credit: Guildwiki)
Heroes' Ascent
SAME door. Same markings, same engravings, same shape, same architecture.
Dismiss that.
Oh yeah, and both have Eye markings everywhere around them.
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