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This story began with a human soldier named Ronan whom, while separated from his patrol, discovered a cavern filled with strange seed-pods. This cavern was protected by terrible plant creatures, so he fled, clinging to a single seed to show his daughter when he returned home from war. But, upon his arrival, Ronan discovered the Mursaat had destroyed his village and murdered his family, leaving only ruined houses and mass graves. In agony, he planted the seed on their graves and swore never to return to battle.
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Sylvari have no children, no families as such, but each Sylvari feels a special connection with others through what they call the �Dream of Dreams.� In this dream, they commune with the inner mind of the race, learning how to speak, walk, use simple tools, and interact with the world. Thus, when a Sylvari emerges, she knows a great deal more about the world than one might expect.
But the Dream of Dreams also contains nightmares�hidden whispers behind the voices of their fellow Sylvari. They do not understand what it means�but the Sylvari have yet to experience much of the world around them. They do not know the dangers and troubles of Tyria as intimately the other races do. But they are learning.
The first time I read this, I wondered if we could already know what the whispers were.
Here's what we know:
1.) The seed that made the Sylvari was taken from somewhere, so there are more seeds.
2.) The Sylvari are greatly affected by where their tree grew, following the peaceful teachings of Ventari and assuming human-shaped bodies.
3.) The Sylvari communicate through the Dream of Dreams, which no other race has ever used.
So, what does this leave us with for those whispers in the Dream of Dreams?
The only conclusion I can come to is that the seeds from that cave were also planted in other circumstances, resulting in different species that share basic similarities to the Sylvari (Dream of Dreams, curiosity, born from pods, etc.), but those others would lack the teachings of Ventari and the human-shape.
If that is the case, do you think that we have already seen the 'ancestors' of the Sylvari? Could Urgoz and his minions be the Sylvari's predecessors? What about the plant creatures in Maguuma Jungle?
Personally, I don't think we've really run into the Sylvari's predecessors, but I do think that finding out what the whispers are will play a big part of the Sylvari world in GW2. What do you think?|||Well (and this is just a thought) the nightmares could have something to do with the dragons waking up...
The Sylvari are, well to put it bluntly, treeish and so I assume they are in tune with nature - the sleeping dragons are asleep in the earth, ice, water etc etc...
Like I say, is just a thought.
But I sure would LOVE to know where Ronan found that seed!!!|||I think it's definitely possible that in the 250 years since Kormir's ascension, other seeds have been recovered and distributed across Tyria. And I agree, Ventari's Tablet definitely had a profound effect on the Sylvari as a race. The only reason the Sylvari emerged as they were is probably down to a number of specific factors:
- The seed was planted on the graves of the rebel villagers and Ronan's family (we'll call it Ronan's Refuge, since Ventari already has one :P)
- The way they died may have something to do with it too - if the tree absorbed Ventari's essence after he died, it may also have absorbed the remains of the rebel villagers, which may be infused with the magic of Spectral Agony. Of course, this is just a guess with no real evidence, just throwing it out there for consideration.
- I'd say the Ventari Tablet is the biggest factor in them turning out how they did. They basically owe all of their morals to it.
I think we need to look into the possibility of these "anti-Sylvari" a bit more.|||While it's true that Urgoz cannot be killed once and for all, i doubt he is the cause; he's the spirit of the Echovald, and he only has dominion over that. The dragons may indeed seem the simplest answer.
Kanaxai was a demon of nightmares... but there's nothing to suggest The Deep mission didn't happen just the once. He and his oni could be gone for good.
I'll remind you of one thing, though: In the Realm of Torment, didn't Dhuum enter the mind of the Forgotten Rukkassa, driving him mad?|||Ways to recognize [Evil] Sylvari:
-they have some Tree'ish appearance [what else could come out of a seed?]
-their morals are greatly influenced by their environment [in this case, the village of Ronan and Ventari's Island and all such]
Do we know any race/creature in Guild Wars that could fit these requierments? The Wardens. And of them has already been said that they were the former protectors of the forest [under the control of Urgoz], now corrupted by the Jade Wind. I think the Wardens are some form of Sylvari:
The wardens were once the protectors of the Echovald Forest to which they were bound. When the Forest died by the effect of Shiro's dead wail, their leader [the actual tree they grew from] turned insane and all the Wardens joined him. I don't know why this could've turned them all insane, but I think the Sylvari [and thus the Wardens] are very weak to a quickly changing environment.
Thats just my idea, feel free to take it down.|||Quote:
While it's true that Urgoz cannot be killed once and for all, i doubt he is the cause; he's the spirit of the Echovald, and he only has dominion over that. The dragons may indeed seem the simplest answer.
Kanaxai was a demon of nightmares... but there's nothing to suggest The Deep mission didn't happen just the once. He and his oni could be gone for good.
I'll remind you of one thing, though: In the Realm of Torment, didn't Dhuum enter the mind of the Forgotten Rukkassa, driving him mad?
I only mentioned Urgoz in the first place as a possible "anti-Sylvari" (as Santax called them) because he happens to be a plant-creature. He may be the spirit of the Echovald, but where did he come from? He could have been offspring of a seed like the Sylvari's, but grown in an entirely different location.
Personally, I think he's something else, but it was a thought that crossed my mind.
EDIT: Or maybe, like Jair pointed out, the Wardens themselves were anti-Sylvari. Since their consciousness would then be linked, the corruption of their home-tree could really mess them up, since they wouldn't be able to sleep without being surrounded by corruption. And Urgoz is the Wardens' leader... I wonder if the Sylvari have a leader...?
I also don't think that the whispers that the Sylvari hear are from the dragons. It sounds like the Dream of Dreams is a linking of just Sylvari-to-Sylvari. If that is the case, there must be something similar-but-different to the Sylvari for them to be heard in the Dream of Dreams.
Look closer at this part, too:
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This story began with a human soldier named Ronan whom, while separated from his patrol, discovered a cavern filled with strange seed-pods.
The seed that Ronan took was only one of hundreds, possibly thousands, of seeds. The Sylvari may even be a minority compared to a larger, more evil (maybe just more secretive?) race of plant-people.
This brings up another question, though:
Why are they only whispers? Is there an issue of distance compared to ability to hear and be heard? Or is it deliberately hidden/muffled from the Sylvari to leave them in the dark?|||Quote:
Why are they only whispers? Is there an issue of distance compared to ability to hear and be heard? Or is it deliberately hidden/muffled from the Sylvari to leave them in the dark?
The Dream of Dreams could be a learned skill.
For example, humans have an inherent ability to balance, but they need to learn to ride a bicycle.|||Quote:
The Dream of Dreams could be a learned skill.
For example, humans have an inherent ability to balance, but they need to learn to ride a bicycle.
But there's the problem of this:
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...but each Sylvari feels a special connection with others through what they call the �Dream of Dreams." In this dream, they commune with the inner mind of the race, learning how to speak, walk, use simple tools, and interact with the world. Thus, when a Sylvari emerges, she knows a great deal more about the world than one might expect.
They are dreaming before they are 'born'. In order for that to be the case, it must be innate during gestation (or whatever it's called for pod-people).
Although... this may only be the case for the Sylvari. The anti-Sylvari may not be generally 'advanced' enough to automatically be a part of the Dream of Dreams at all times. That could also explain why there are only whispers, or why there aren't other anti-Sylvari using the Dream of Dreams, despite the evidence that there could/should be more races that use it.|||Personally I don't think that we are dealing with the Echovald. Urgoz is merely the embodiment of the forest, and his Wardens are probably just Kurzick Druids that were spiritually closer to the forest than humanity at the time of the Jade Wind. I doubt we've seen any "anti-Sylvari" yet, or they'd be instantly recognisable. I doubt that the conditions in which they were planted have any effect on their physiology, but it may be a possobility.
Although I could be wrong altogether, and it could have something to do with the Dragons, or maybe even something else entirely. The most we can do for now is guess and work from the clues left for us in Eye of the North.
EDIT: Anyone remember this?
"An offering to those who seek"Hmm... "beyond the dreams"..."on distant shores"...maybe another seed has been dispersed already. "A land unwaking" would definitely suggest the Echovald Forest or the Jade Sea, but since they aren't really unwaking anymore (grass in the Echovald, water pools forming in the Jade Sea), I doubt it's referring to there. Plus, Usoku's attitudes towards other races would mean that another Sylvari tree wouldn't have lasted too long in Cantha.
"Beyond the mists beyond the dreams"
"On distant shores oh a land unwaking"
"Answers there lie in waiting"
Of course, if we examine the possibility of an "anti-Sylvari" being evil, it could be that they were born, and then immediately proceeded to clear the Echovald Forest of any human life, which would open up the way for a new threat in a Guild Wars 2 expansion. If Urgoz is to the "anti-Sylvari" as Ventari is to the Sylvari, then the "anti-Sylvari" could be born with the exact opposite views to their Tyrian brethren. That is, assuming, Urgoz has not regained his sanity with the forest growing back. I might just be assuming too much here and not looking at other possibilities.
If we can take the spirit's riddle to be a clue to the possible location of other trees, we need to find an "unwaking" land, somewhere that is a long, long way from the Far Shiverpeaks. If we take "across the mists" literally, it could even be in another world.
We also need to work out the mysterious link to the six gods, considering the context in which the riddle is placed.
EDIT2: We should bear this in mind, too:
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Here we go, rabid fans poking the quest designer for clues : D We have been poking Linsey a lot, I think it's more than fair if we spread the pokage a bit. She mentioned that you were the one behind this serie of quests - and those were a really great work, the quests are fun and the mysteries they have are very thought provoking. There is one doubt lingering over our heads, though - the text at the very end had its cryptogram figured out, but is it talking about something in GW1, or something in GW2? We have players ready to check the entirety of the 3 continents with Light of Deldrimor every three steps, but it would be good to know if what they are seeking is there or if it's a future feature (and I loved the X-Files reference : )
Revelations is a lot like the Mursaat chain in that they both build up the stories and lore of our world - EotN is a link to GW2 in more ways than just "These are the Asura, and these *points upwards* are the Norn!" I'd rather not have people LoD'ing the entirety of the game (unless they're trying to get their Cartography titles in a really unusual manner) for these quests. It's really awesome that people are curious and care enough about this that they'd go that far, though. I'll say this instead: there are questions to be answered in the future, but I think at the moment, maybe people aren't focusing on the right questions. What if it isn't so much "Where?" as it is "Why?" and "What then?"
That's probably about as much as I can say about it. Speculation is an interesting beast... it's frustrating and intriguing all at the same time. It would be easier if people asked me questions that I could answer without dodging, such as "Why is Hayda so awesome?" or "Who is the best character in Guilty Gear?" ... just so long as no one asks me why it is that kids love Cinnamon Toast Crunch. I still haven't figured that one out.|||Quote:
hey are dreaming before they are 'born'. In order for that to be the case, it must be innate during gestation (or whatever it's called for pod-people).
I'm not sure how that is a problem.
So they're before they're born, they have the Dreams. But it's also conceivable that to be at full strength, a Sylvari has to be taught how to use the Dreams. Therefore they'd only receive whispers of information from the anti-Sylvari, because they've never been taught how to fully utilize the skill.
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Although... this may only be the case for the Sylvari. The anti-Sylvari may not be generally 'advanced' enough to automatically be a part of the Dream of Dreams at all times. That could also explain why there are only whispers, or why there aren't other anti-Sylvari using the Dream of Dreams, despite the evidence that there could/should be more races that use it.
Either the Sylvari or the anti-Sylvari could be stunted in their use of the Dream of Dreams. Perhaps the anti-Sylvari were forcibly stunted by whatever dark power stole them from the seed cavern -- so that they wouldn't be able to draw upon the strength and goodness of the rest of the Sylvari. They'd be crippled in spirit if not in body, making them more easily controlled.
Or perhaps training is required to use the power fully (as I mentioned above) and whatever stole the anti-Sylvari from the seed cavern knew about this training. The anti-Sylvari were intentionally corrupted by an evil force to actually destroy and corrupt all Sylvari in the seed cavern, akin to introducing a computer virus into a network. The Sylvari stolen by Ronan are not corrupt because they aren't as well connected.
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