Now, we all know that there is no in game direct reference to Arachnia, and that Arachnia, an ancient, now-dead spider-god, is only truly found in the .dat file. However, I am bringing up my thoughts on this spider-god that came to me while exploring the Realm of Torment for known and unknown landmarks that are mentioned on the official wiki.
Arachnia and the Realm of Torment “Landmarks.”
The first mention of Arachnia would be the landmarks that are not all completely found (I have been looking for them all, at this point in time; have yet to find seven of twenty-three). The landmarks that relate to Arachnia are: Arachnia Plateau, Harvestman's Lair, The Spider's Heart, and Vale of Shadows. These four areas all have a reference to Arachnia directly, or to spider-like things.
Aside from that, the Gate of Fear and the Domain of Fear are riddled with spider legs and spider webs. Also, in that area, I have noted the most likely places to be the “Vale of Shadows” and the “Harvestman’s Lair.” It seems to me, that when/if Arachnia existed, the now Domain of Fear was its main home/realm.
There is also the description of the Domain of Fear that was found in the gw.dat file:
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Domain of Fear
Repository of fears of primitive men at the time Abaddon was imprisoned. May indicate the power of a previous, spider or dryder-like race in the world.
Arachnia’s link to Abaddon.
With knowing that Arachnia is a dead god, and that the Domain of Fear is at least based off of it, we can assume some more things about it. In addition to how the Gate/Domain of Fear look, and with the landmarks in there being mostly related to Arachnia (possibly all the Arachnia landmarks are in the Domain of Fear, and I have yet to spot the rest), as I said, it is highly possible that the Domain of Fear was Arachnia’s home. Now, another thing to look at is the Apostate. Everyone who has looked into Abaddon and lore should know the quest reward dialogue from The Apostate. For fast reference, here it is (and I bolded the important part, and underlined the very important part):
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Thank you for protecting me. And for your help, I shall now fulfill my end of the bargain.
You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon's hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he may be supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.
Use this knowledge for your benefit.
Knowing that Abaddon supplanted a god before him, and the Domain of Fear is based on Arachnia, and not to mention that Arachnia is dead, one can assume that Abaddon’s predecessor was Arachnia. Other then the given evidence, it should also be pointed out that the Apostate works in the Gate/Domain of Fear (he can be found in the Gate of Fear, and the quest by him deals within the Domain of Fear). So there are several supports for Arachnia being Abaddon’s predecessor.
Arachnia’s minions/followers.
With the idea that Arachnia was Abaddon’s predecessor – and its main home was the now Domain of Fear – set in place, the next thing to look at is Arachnia’s past minions. I’m sure many will disagree with this part (if not the whole idea in this). I believe that the Terrorweb Dryders, Torment Claw and Grasps of Insanity, possible the Scythes of Chaos and Wrathful Storms, were originally Arachnia’s minions. My main reasoning is that they (excluding Wrathful Storms and Scythes of Chaos) have a spider-like look. Dryders are obvious, and the Claws look like giant spider legs. Grasps have been noted to have bug-like features in the past, and the Wrathful Storms and Scythes of Chaos also have somewhat bug-like features, although those two are the least dominant of the group. My second reasoning is that those groups all appear in the area I’ve noted to most likely be the Harvestman's Lair, which is the “swamp-like area” in the south east corner of the Domain of Fear. If these demons were originally Arachnia’s minions, then started helping Abaddon, Dhuum, and Menzies, that could explain why the Lightbringer title does not affect those demons (excluding the Torment Claws from the group for this).
I am also leading to believe, although I have absolutely no support for this, that Arachnia is the origin of all hostile bugs in GW. My reasoning for this is that 1) Arachnia is older then the “True Gods,” 2) Arachnia was a spider (and therefore a bug), and 3) Arachnia was evil (evidenced by “The Spider’s Heart” description).
Possible Arachnia concept art. Looks convincing enough to be Arachnia to me at least.
Something that may or may not deal with Arachnia, found in Nightfallen Jahai:
Spoiler
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None of this can really be proven, or even be truly liable, until ANet confirms or denies that Arachnia was a thrown out concept or not. These are just some thoughts, and a little support, that I had while looking over the Landmarks of the Realm of Torment and the idea of Arachnia from the .dat file.|||In my opinion Dhuum's the actual insect-like fallen god. The underworld remains the only place to get a pet-spider and the dryders including the terrorweb queen are Dhuum's minions.
Now Abaddon has six eyes, and if i'm correct about the concept art found on the designers website for the unreleased gw1 chapter, then Dhuum has six arms. Arachnia obviously beeing a spider, maybe there all a happy family just like Menzies and Balthazar which are said to be halfbrothers, each with diffrent powers and diffrent minions.|||Quote:
Arachnia�s minions/followers.
With the idea that Arachnia was Abaddon�s predecessor � and its main home was the now Domain of Fear � set in place, the next thing to look at is Arachnia�s past minions. I�m sure many will disagree with this part (if not the whole idea in this). I believe that the Terrorweb Dryders, Torment Claw and Grasps of Insanity, possible the Scythes of Chaos and Wrathful Storms, were originally Arachnia�s minions. My main reasoning is that they (excluding Wrathful Storms and Scythes of Chaos) have a spider-like look. Dryders are obvious, and the Claws look like giant spider legs. Grasps have been noted to have bug-like features in the past, and the Wrathful Storms and Scythes of Chaos also have somewhat bug-like features, although those two are the least dominant of the group. My second reasoning is that those groups all appear in the area I�ve noted to most likely be the Harvestman's Lair, which is the �swamp-like area� in the south east corner of the Domain of Fear. If these demons were originally Arachnia�s minions, then started helping Abaddon, Dhuum, and Menzies, that could explain why the Lightbringer title does not affect those demons (excluding the Torment Claws from the group for this).
Don't you think it is more plausible that Abbadon just slaughtered all of Arachnia's followers/minions after he took over. Kormir is doing the exact same thing, and I think Grenth did the same with the Dryders in the past. At least the Grasps, Claws, Scythes and Storms that we are sure of that they are Demons seem high unlikely to be ex-Arachnia-followers to me, especially because most of the by you mentioned spider-linked aspect of their appearances are quite far-fetched.
Now, the Dryders look a lot like spiders, but they are Dhuum's followers, not Abbadon's. If, like you say, Abbadon defeated Arachnia, than it would be more likely that the Dryders became Abbadon's followers, not Dhuums.
I actually think that Abbadon didn't defeat Arachnia by himself. I think that he did it together with Dhuum. Since they work together in bringing Nightfall to the world, isn't it possible that they had already forged a bit of an alliance (something the other Gods didn't know of) with eachother?
Abbadon:"Hey, I still need a Realm."
Dhuum: "Yea, you do, what are you gonna do 'bout it?"
Abbadon:"Thinking 'bout slaying that nasty overgrown spider, Arachnia, and take her Realm from her. I could use some help on that actually, do you want to join me?
Dhuum: "Sure, but what do I get for it?"
Abbadon: "You know what, if I can have her Realm, you may enslave the rest of her minions."
Dhuum: "That seems fair."|||Just to make it clear, if it wasn't already from the OP, this is more of a hypothesis than anything else. This due in part to the validity of Arachnia even still playing a part in the GW story being extremely foggy. For all we know it was a trashed concept.|||I'm going to ignore Leon's comment just because I've heard enough of that issue. Until it has been disproven, it is still liable in my opinion.
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In my opinion Dhuum's the actual insect-like fallen god. The underworld remains the only place to get a pet-spider and the dryders including the terrorweb queen are Dhuum's minions.
Now Abaddon has six eyes, and if i'm correct about the concept art found on the designers website for the unreleased gw1 chapter, then Dhuum has six arms. Arachnia obviously beeing a spider, maybe there all a happy family just like Menzies and Balthazar which are said to be halfbrothers, each with diffrent powers and diffrent minions.
Dhuum's image, as far as I know, has never been released, not even a concept of him. Please post a picture of this Dhuum concept. If I'm thinking about the one your thinking of, then I will say the concept art looks more like a Torment Demon then Dhuum, but I may be thinking of the wrong one.
I will say that it is possible that Dhuum was also an insectoid God, but until we have something more then "Dhuum's minions look like bugs, so Dhuum must be a bug" I will say that's not liable, unlike Arachnia, which is/was a spider-god. As for Abaddon being related to Arachnia and Dhuum, I doubt that because many things in GW has six eyes. You can thank at least one artist for loving six eyes on bad guys for that.
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Don't you think it is more plausible that Abbadon just slaughtered all of Arachnia's followers/minions after he took over. Kormir is doing the exact same thing, and I think Grenth did the same with the Dryders in the past. At least the Grasps, Claws, Scythes and Storms that we are sure of that they are Demons seem high unlikely to be ex-Arachnia-followers to me, especially because most of the by you mentioned spider-linked aspect of their appearances are quite far-fetched.
Now, the Dryders look a lot like spiders, but they are Dhuum's followers, not Abbadon's. If, like you say, Abbadon defeated Arachnia, than it would be more likely that the Dryders became Abbadon's followers, not Dhuums. [/quote]First, about the slaughtering the minions idea. Kormir is having Abaddon's minions killed because they are evil and are trying to overthrow Kormir. I'm sure that she won't kill the Lost or the Apostate, or any others that decide to serve her. And she is also probably just going to re-imprison some of them for all we know, not have a genocide for them, unless she herself is evil.
As for the ex-arachnia minions, I said that the claws look like spider legs (and they actually do if you look at them), dryders you said look like spiders, and Graps have constantly been noted by other people to have insectooid features. The Scythes and Storms are the only real far-fetched for having insectoid looks. But no one said they all had to be insectoid to be a servant of Arachnia.
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I actually think that Abbadon didn't defeat Arachnia by himself. I think that he did it together with Dhuum. Since they work together in bringing Nightfall to the world, isn't it possible that they had already forged a bit of an alliance (something the other Gods didn't know of) with eachother?
This is possible, however, I believe a better idea on why the Dyders also serve Dhuum could be one of two things:
1) Like how Dhuum sent some of his minions (i.e. The Fury) to help Abaddon, Abaddon could have sent the Dryders to help Dhuum in retaking the Underworld (as Dhuum attacked much earlier then Abaddon).
or
2) The Dyders and other former servants of Arachnia, excluding the Torment Claws as those seem to be tied to both the Domain of Fear and the Dreadspawn Maw - which first served Abaddon then Mallyx, and possibly Arachnia before both - now act as "demonic mercenaries" working for any evil god as they wish.
It is also possible that the Terrorweb Queen was trying to get to the same "height" as her creator, Arachnia, and served Dhuum and Abaddon with the promise of getting Grenth's powers once he was killed. Although, that is rather far-fetched.|||Quote:
1) Like how Dhuum sent some of his minions (i.e. The Fury) to help Abaddon, Abaddon could have sent the Dryders to help Dhuum in retaking the Underworld (as Dhuum attacked much earlier then Abaddon).
That doesn't make sense. Why would Dhuum trade his own trusted servants for new ones of Abbadon, and why would Abbadon trade his own trusted servants for those of Dhuum?
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2) The Dyders and other former servants of Arachnia, excluding the Torment Claws as those seem to be tied to both the Domain of Fear and the Dreadspawn Maw - which first served Abaddon then Mallyx, and possibly Arachnia before both - now act as "demonic mercenaries" working for any evil god as they wish.
Too far-fetched. Besides, the Dryders don't show enough intelligence/organization to be considered more than slaves/minions in my opinion.|||For the first one, the timeline is needed to realize why one then the other. The Underworld, Tombs, and Shing Jea were all attacked before the time that Nightfall took place. Abaddon first gave Dhuum minions to try to take over those places before he attempts to finally break free. In other words, he gave his minions to help weaken the realms and his bonds. But when the time came for Abaddon to break out, his minions returned along with some from Menzies and Dhuum. Makes sense to me at least. The minions were at one place, then they moved because of what their master(s) were doing changed.
For the second idea, that one is less likely then the first, however, if they have a Queen, then they have organization. And they could just simply follow the Terrorweb Queen with what she does/did. The demons can simply be serving both gods, and later move on. The only thing against the demonic mercenary idea, as you pointed out, is that they have no proven intelligence.
We know that the Terrorweb's main home is in the Realm of Torment (The Soulweir in the Domain of Pain, and Harvestman's Den in Domain of Fear), and we know that the Terrorweb Queen was serving Dhuum when we killed her. So it's at least clear that Terrorwebs serve both Abaddon and Dhuum, and there is no, at least given to us that I know of, of Dhuum having use of Terrorwebs before his fall at the hands of Grenth. Because of that, I find it unlikely that they split the minions of Arachnia.
I am personally in favor of idea 1, or the third, unnumbered idea I mentioned (the Queen trying to enter god-hood), but I felt in necessary to mention all possibilities.|||We have several obvious instances of Dhuum's forces being his own.
1. The Underworld. We see a large variety of creatures there, but the main ones causing the trouble are the Terrorweb Dryders who have imprisoned the Reapers.
2. The Dragon Festival. During the first Festival, the Fury, a follower of Dhuum, led an attack on Shing Jea Island. Being a follower should make it obvious that his forces would be those of Dhuum's.
3. The Emissary of Dhuum makes it fairly obvious that the Tortureweb Dryders are a part of Dhuum's main force. In fact, it seems that the Soulweir is a creation of Dhuum's devising.
The part I find interesting is that we never really learn exactly what it is the Soulweir does.
Pondering that aside, it seems fairly obvious from the Keeper of Souls in the Unwanted Guest quest in the Underworld that the Terrorweb/Tortureweb Dryders are a key part, if not the main part, of Dhuum's forces. As it would also seem that they are used to enslave or bind demons to Dhuum's will, as implied by the quest mentioned.
Aside from the Dryders, it seems that creatures like the Fury and the Emissary of Dhuum are simply sentient demons that have sided with Dhuum's cause. The other forces we see may be more demons that have sided with him or are ones that were subjugated by the Fury under Dhuum's command or provided by Abaddon.|||Quote:
Too far-fetched. Besides, the Dryders don't show enough intelligence/organization to be considered more than slaves/minions in my opinion.
The Terrorweb Dryders show remarkable intelligence in The Underworld. The Terrorweb Queen, for example, is motivated by revenge to avenge her children, and the Dryders occupy and defend the Spawning Pools Fortress strategically. They have sufficient intelligence to create the demon assassin, the Slayer, and command it (by means of the keepers of souls). In fact, they even have minions of their own (Grasping Darkness). They have the ability to make creatures invulnerable (the invincible Aatxes), again by means of the ritualistic keepers of souls. In my opinion, they're not just unintelligent slaves, but fully fledged, pretty advanced, loyal minions.|||
[/URL]That's Dhuum in my opinion. The pic is from concept art that was scrapped and doesn't have a name but it fits how i imagined him. Oh and that'll be four arms and two legs but still very insect-like.
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