After reading The Sylvari Nightmares thread, I decided to research the origin of the wardens. (To those who intend to read that thread, it is a thread on the Slyvari and a possible link to the Wardens due to the origins and Urgoz’s tree-look). This research is to find who or what the Wardens were before being Wardens, or where they came form. Also, to show why the Wardens are similar/different from other similar races.
The Wardens live in only one place, the Echovald Forest, which means that they are bound to that area. That means that they have to deal with the Forest itself, and cannot/do not want to move to other locations.
According to the Factions Manual:
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The mysterious and ancient Wardens guard the areas of Cantha hit the hardest by Shiro’s legacy. Protectors of the Echovald that was, they now guard the petrified forest it has become. They may once have been human, perhaps powerful gruids or holy men, but they long ago merged with the spirit they served to become something altogether different.
Now they stand as the ultimate protectors of the Echovald that is. The clan claims the right of vengeance for what Shiro Tagachi wrought, and blames all humans for the Jade Wind that stripped the woods and sea of life, but inexplicably left the Wardens unharmed. Driven nearly mad, enraged at their failure to fulfill their only purpose, they work in their own mysterious ways to reverse the effects of Shiro’s death, but until the succeed, they will threaten any humans they encounter.
Wardens do not take names as such, but take their monikers from their rank in the clan’s natural hierarchy. The lowest rank, least powerful Wardens are Associated with the smallest forms and shapes of nature-leaves, moss, seashells, and so on. Higher Up are those Wardens who take their name from particular trees or larger forms of sea life, while those protectors that lead the clans take the names of the seasons.
So according to the Factions Manual, the wardens were once humans, most likely druids, that merged their essence with the forest. So that removes the idea that was on GWO about the Wardens being born like the Slyari, and therefore removes the possible link.
Although removing a link from one forest-dweller, it makes another to a different type of forest-dwellers. The Druids. The Druids, as evident from the Scriptures of Melandru, were once humans.
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And it was that a tribe of godless humans wandered the land. Where camped did they lay waste, senselessly destroying everything nearby.
And so the tribe set out to find another camp, when suddenly sprouted a wall of thorny branches, which blocked their exit.
Then saith Ewan, leader of the tribe, "Know ye our ways. Whosoever does magic in this tribe shall be put to death."
Yet none comes forward. Then, from the earth grows forth a large tree, and unfurling its branches, reveals the upper torso of a woman. Saith She, "I am Melandru, the Mother of earth and nature. Henceforth I bind ye to these lands. When they suffer, so shall ye suffer."
And as She saith, so was it done. From their limbs sprouted branches, and the blood in their veins was the sap of trees. Then was Ewan and his tribe converted, and became they stewards of nature.
-- Scriptures of Melandru: 48 BE
The Druids gave up not only their individuality, but their flesh as well. They took their involvement with nature a step farther then the Wardens. Another way to help the connection between the Wardens and Druids would be the quest dialogue for Wicked Wardens.
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For generations, my family has worked to protect the forest and its precious resorces. In fact, it was my great-great-great grandmother who first noticed the connection between the wardens and the spirit of the forest. She realized that the wardens were doing the work of the forest spirit, protecting innocent travelers, punishing those who harmed the forest's creatures, and helping to guide the forest through the cycle of life and death.
After the Jade Wind came, we thought that the forest spirit had been destroyed or corrupted, for the wardens turned hostile and began attacking anyone and everything in sight. And now, this new plague seems to have made them even more crazed and hostile.
We've begun a campaign to eliminate the corrupted wardens, and we hope that by doing so, the ancient forest spirit, if it still lives, will awaken and breath life into this forest once more. Unfortunately, with the war against the Luxons heating up, most of our capable fighters have been sent to the front lines. If you will eliminate any wardens you come across as you travel the forest, we'd be extremely grateful.
This dialogue supports both the Factions Manual and the theorized connection to the Druids. Druids combined their essence to the Maguuma, Wardens to the Echovald. The reason why the Wardens are hostile and the Druids are not is because of the corruption that took place during the Jade Wind.
Another thing that must be looked at is Urgoz himself. Urgoz is the leader of the wardens and he was corrupted by the Jade Wind. Because of the game mechanics, the wardens will always attack the players and other NPCs. Lore wise, Urgoz was killed shortly after Shiro was defeated in Cantha, and according to the Eye of the North manual, when the earth quakes start occurring, the Echoald Forest is starting to become green and no longer petrified. So, with Urgoz, my theory to introduce is: Was Urgoz what kept the Wardens mad and the Echovald Forest petrified?
My reasoning for this first deals with the Eye of the North Manual.
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Over the past few years, life has begun to spring up in Echovald Forest *** many areas have seen new groth take hold. Some even claim to have seen in the Jade Sea – small pools of water forming or even waves moving beneath the frozen surface – but these reports are unsubstantiated rumors at best.
Clearly after Urgoz’s defeat the Echovald Forest is returning to how it was. Of course, this can also be said to be the result of Abaddon’s defeat, as it was his power that corrupted the Echovald Forest. I disagree with the Abaddon theory on this, because although it was his power that corrupted, the Realm of Torment is still rather messed up after his defeat. I think that the ones who kept the corruption in the Echovald forest was Urgoz, the corruption in the Jade Sea was Kanaxai, and the Realm of Torment was Mallyx, at least after Abaddon’s defeat(for Mallyx that is).
Another fact that supports my theory that Urgoz was the one keeping the corruption in the Echovald Forest present is that the closer to Urgoz the players get, the more “Maddened” the enemies are, you have Maddened Dredges and Maddened Wardens for example. The Wardens are only maddened when they are near Urgoz, why? Because he caused them to become mad.
In summary, Wardens are not like Slyvari, which are born from seeds. Wardens were once humans who gave up their humanity to be able to protect the Echovald Forest, which makes them more like the Druids of the Maguuma then the Slyvari. Also, Urgoz is what kept the Wardens as being hostile and kept the Echovald Forest petrified.
A link to the Guru thread for reading on the responses/questions I got over there, and my answers.
Edit: Sorry, forgot to put it into the Canthan Lore section, movve it if you want, although it does cover Druids in Tyria along with the Slyvari (although very little of them).|||Great research, but there are a couple of things that I need to point out. First of all:
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They may once have been human, perhaps powerful druids or holy men, but they long ago merged with the spirit they served to become something altogether different.
Take a look at the highlighted bits. As you can see the Factions Manuscripts are unsure whether the Wardens were once Druids/men. So this can't really be used as proof that they once were human. It does clearly state that they merged with the forest, and yes, that does remove the connection with the Sylvari.
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This dialogue supports both the Factions Manual and the theorized connection to the Druids. Druids combined their essence to the Maguuma, Wardens to the Echovald. The reason why the Wardens are hostile and the Druids are not is because of the corruption that took place during the Jade Wind.
In every way, we see the Druids being different from the Wardens. In the Wicked Wardens dialog I read that they protected travelers as they came through the forest, the Druids don't do something like that, they only provide help if we do something in return. We also never see them protecting the Jungle in such a progressive way as the Wardens did (namely attacking everyone harming the Forest's creatures).
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Of course, this can also be said to be the result of Abaddon’s defeat, as it was his power that corrupted the Echovald Forest. I disagree with the Abaddon theory on this, because although it was his power that corrupted, the Realm of Torment is still rather messed up after his defeat. I think that the ones who kept the corruption in the Echovald forest was Urgoz, the corruption in the Jade Sea was Kanaxai, and the Realm of Torment was Mallyx, at least after Abaddon’s defeat(for Mallyx that is).
Urgoz is not only the leader of the Wardens, he was also the Forest Spirit of the Echovald Forest. That is why he became so enraged after the Forest turned to stone. He was the one who told the Wardens that the humans were the reason that the Forest was now dead, and that caused them to attack all the humans. So, since Urgoz is the actual "head-protector" of the Echovald, why, by the 6 Gods, would he continue corrupt the Forest?
Kanaxai would, in my opinion, rather be proof that Abbadon corrupted Cantha, because, well, he was a demon. We don't know if he is connected to either Abbadon/Menzies/Dhuum, but every single other demon in the entire world is working for one of them, so it would make sense that he is too. It seems most plausible to me that Abbadon kept him there to keep the corruption intact.
However that is pure speculation.|||Quote:
Take a look at the highlighted bits. As you can see the Factions Manuscripts are unsure whether the Wardens were once Druids/men. So this can't really be used as proof that they once were human. It does clearly state that they merged with the forest, and yes, that does remove the connection with the Sylvari.
Can't really argue about that, but it's the best we have of what the wardens were before being what they are now, and it seems very plausible that they were humans. The main point of that was purely to differentiate them from Sylvari and introduce the idea of them being similar to Druids (simply as beings that later merged with the forest).
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In every way, we see the Druids being different from the Wardens. In the Wicked Wardens dialog I read that they protected travelers as they came through the forest, the Druids don't do something like that, they only provide help if we do something in return. We also never see them protecting the Jungle in such a progressive way as the Wardens did (namely attacking everyone harming the Forest's creatures).
The Druids did protect the forest, in a way. To be more exactly, they used creatures such as the Jungle Guardians in Bloodstone Fen to protect the forest. Druids are still protectors of the forest, just not aggressive protectors like the Wardens are.
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Urgoz is not only the leader of the Wardens, he was also the Forest Spirit of the Echovald Forest. That is why he became so enraged after the Forest turned to stone. He was the one who told the Wardens that the humans were the reason that the Forest was now dead, and that caused them to attack all the humans. So, since Urgoz is the actual "head-protector" of the Echovald, why, by the 6 Gods, would he continue corrupt the Forest?
Umm... can you please show your source for saying Urgoz is the Forest Guardian? I looked over everything I could find and I couldn't find such a connection. All I could find was that Urgoz is the leader of the Wardens.
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Kanaxai would, in my opinion, rather be proof that Abbadon corrupted Cantha, because, well, he was a demon. We don't know if he is connected to either Abbadon/Menzies/Dhuum, but every single other demon in the entire world is working for one of them, so it would make sense that he is too. It seems most plausible to me that Abbadon kept him there to keep the corruption intact.
However that is pure speculation.
Well, I personally say that both Kanaxai and Urgoz are corruptions of Abaddon, I just left out Kanaxai because he isn't related to the topic. Urgoz was an existing being that was corrupted, Kanaxai is a being that is corrupted, I'm not sure of Kanaxai's origins as I haven't really looked into him.|||Quote:
Umm... can you please show your source for saying Urgoz is the Forest Guardian? I looked over everything I could find and I couldn't find such a connection. All I could find was that Urgoz is the leader of the Wardens.
This is from Vash, the guy who takes you to Urgoz Warren from House Zu Heltzer.
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Years ago, Urgoz was the protector of Echovald Forest. At that time, we Kurzicks worked in tandem with Urgoz and his Wardens, maintaining order and balance within the forest, and keeping it free from any evil taint.
Things like "The Protector of the Echovald Forest" seem to point out that Urgoz was in fact the Forest Spirit, or at least he was the main protector of the Forest. It doesn't matter which one it is, in both cases Urgoz had no reason to continue Abbadon's corruption.
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The Druids did protect the forest, in a way. To be more exactly, they used creatures such as the Jungle Guardians in Bloodstone Fen to protect the forest. Druids are still protectors of the forest, just not aggressive protectors like the Wardens are.
True, but you have to agree with me that the Druids their policy on protecting the Forest is nothing like how the Wicked Warden's dialog mentioned the Wardens did. How many similarity's the Wardens and the Druids may have, there are just as many differences, and I just fail to find a link clear enough to really connect them.|||Quote:
This is from Vash, the guy who takes you to Urgoz Warren from House Zu Heltzer.
Things like "The Protector of the Echovald Forest" seem to point out that Urgoz was in fact the Forest Spirit, or at least he was the main protector of the Forest. It doesn't matter which one it is, in both cases Urgoz had no reason to continue Abbadon's corruption.
When something becomes corrupted, their intentions change and in some cases they don't have a say in what they do. What I'm saying is that Urgoz himself became corrupted, therefore his actions would not be based on what he did before. What it seems your saying is that he was not corrupted, just extremely pissed off. Also, about the Forest Spirit, being protector and being the Forest Spirit are two different things.
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True, but you have to agree with me that the Druids their policy on protecting the Forest is nothing like how the Wicked Warden's dialog mentioned the Wardens did. How many similarity's the Wardens and the Druids may have, there are just as many differences, and I just fail to find a link clear enough to really connect them.
The links are not in who they were, what they do, or how exactly they "merged" with the forest, but they deal with the fact that they did merge with their respective forest and they act/acted as shepherds/protectors of the forest. The links are poor but I was only meaning they are similar in the comparison of the fact of what they are now/were. They were some creature (most likely both were humans) and they merged with the forest and protected it. Methods are different, but purpose is the same.|||Quote:
When something becomes corrupted, their intentions change and in some cases they don't have a say in what they do. What I'm saying is that Urgoz himself became corrupted, therefore his actions would not be based on what he did before. What it seems your saying is that he was not corrupted, just extremely pissed off. Also, about the Forest Spirit, being protector and being the Forest Spirit are two different things.
I'm 90% sure that I read somewhere that he became enraged after the Jade Wind...I'm not exactly sure where that was though.|||It was the wardens that became enraged, it's stated in the Factions Manual. It's even mentioned in the first quote of my first post. But, that is the "basic" of the Warden's behavior, as is nearly everything else in the manual, it's just there to give a basic knowledge of things, the "truth" is in the game, and several accounts lead to Urgoz being corrupted, not just enraged. Duhmel hints to the wardens being corrupted, and I'm sure there are other sources as well, just cannot recall where to look.
In other words, Urgoz and his wardens seem to act enraged by just glancing at them now and knowing how they were then, but they, or at least Urgoz, have been corrupted, at least that is more likely to be the case then simply "enraged."
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