Erasculio|||Quote:
Jormag�s worshippers are active among the Norn, Kralkatorrik�s brand is carved across the charr lands in Ascalon, and the minions of Primordus continue to surface across the land.
So...
Drakkar = Jormag (likely derived from Jormundgand, though there's already a boss like that in the game)
"Water Dragon"/Grothmar = Kralkatorrik
Nice to know their real names at last.|||Drakkar sounded cooler, though.|||Thanks for the find.
I'm not a big lore buff, but it was a good read nonetheless.|||I always thought Glint was a gigantic liar.|||Looks like the mursaat may still be hanging on!|||No reason to stop rallying though! *waves pompoms* Go Unseen!|||My thoughts from the GW2Guru thread:
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Now that the gates have opened on Guild Wars 2 information, will any secrets to Guild Wars 1 be further explained, such as Bahltek, the undeciphered Asuran banner, or the giganticus lupicus?
Short answer – yes. It is the same world, so we will be using the lore and history of the world. What pieces get revealed and explained will develop as the story evolves. And just to drive you mad, at least one of the items listed will be addressed.
I think the "at least one of the items listed will be addressed" does not refer to the Asuran Banner. Yes, there will be more Asuran banners, and we'll be able to translate, but it won't be translated for us. I hope it is the GL which will be "addressed" and not Bahltek, though Linsey has said Bahltek will be talked about later on (this was said over a year ago I believe).
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Jormag’s worshippers are active among the Norn
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Jormag’s worshippers are active among the Norn, Kralkatorrik’s brand is carved across the charr lands in Ascalon,
I'm wondering if this means more corrupted Norn or willing worshippers (Dragon Form?) and I assume (hope) that there will be some sort of corrupted Charr.
I found that first part interesting aswell. At a glance i took it to mean its monsters were actively fighting the Norn but when reading it again it seems to imply that there are Norn actually worshipping it. The second part however is just reffering to the huge crater Kralkatorrik made when he flew over Ascalon. Though i wouldnt be suprised if a Charr or two have been hit by its breath.
Something tells me that this is indeed the case, that there will be Norn worshiping Jormag.
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Why exactly are they waking up now? Unrevealed, but they are waking up hungry.
I am a sad panda, it seems we won't get the answer to this, at least in the initial release.
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The full story of the origin of the humans has yet to be revealed. They arrived in the Tyria (the continent) sometime after they first appeared on Tyria (the world). It seems, from their previous appearances, that they have come up from the south, so the “human homeland” may be further south than Elona and Cantha. The idea of human gods “creating” Tyria is viewed by other races with mixed reactions. The charr think of it as theological propaganda (and that the human gods are not true gods, only more powerful, once-mortal, beings). The asura are perfectly willing to accept the idea of gods as (rather large) gears in the Eternal Alchemy. Norn are perfectly willing to allow the idea of gods, but think of them as a different type of their own animal spirits. The sylvari consider them unproven, since the gods have not shown their presence directly to the sylvari.
Now we have a slight clue on the Sylvari's belief and it seems that Renita (who talked to me on AIM about the religion of GW) seems to be right in that the Sylvari will be Agnostics.
But what is interesting here is two things:
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Norn are perfectly willing to allow the idea of gods, but think of them as a different type of their own animal spirits.
Different type of their own animal spirits? Does this mean another patheon, or perhaps that they are different forms of the same gods? Much like the Avatars and the Facets are different forms of representation of the gods (or perhaps not so much representations as different forms of the gods themselves!).
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so the “human homeland” may be further south than Elona and Cantha.
This makes me think two things:
- Either the Canthan expansion will lead to the "human homeland" (or it will go Cantha in one expansion, the homeland in another).
- That the location of "Utopia" might have been the "human homeland" and is located south of Cantha (As it seemed to be mostly human from the concept art we have of it, and also the most advance, it wouldn't seem too far fetched to think this, I think).
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The Dragons, as we said, have always been here. The gods predate the humans, but not by much. Much of what we know about Glint comes from Glint herself. The truth of the matter may be very different, and she has her own reasons for saying what she has said.
Though I question if Jeff meant the generations of "human gods" is not much older than the humans or if he meant the current generation we see, one thing is clear in that statement: Human arrival in Cantha isn't the oldest of humanity, and humanity may in fact be far older than we think (just to put a closer time difference between the True Gods and the Elder Dragons :p).
What is interesting is that it seems Glint is older than the gods, and was not a creation of them. Whether this means she is connected to the Elder Dragons, however, is unknown. (Glint created the gods and is far stronger than we believe her to be! lol jk)
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Dragons are power, and the facets reflect the nature of the power that the human gods have harnessed. Both the Asuran Central Transfer Chamber and the City of Arah were built on places of power, which turned out to be directly over Elder Dragons.
It is possible that the cryptic message refers to the Dragons – “a land unwaking” could be the risen kingdom of Orr, and answers to the origin of the dragons do lie there.
Orr, the answer to all questions. So the gods have harnessed the dragon's power, it seems. Due to their shape, it could be the joke above may be right, Glint created (or gave power to) the six (or seven, depending on the place of the Great Dwarf's deity-ness).
Random Theory: Glint was a sixth Elder Dragon, possibly the strongest of them all (this is unimportant), she was the only one who didn't go to hibernation. Instead, she created six powerful beings (or found six mortal and turned them into powerful beings) who became the gods, who then terraformed Tyria and started creating the world with various races. Meaning Glint was not the first creation of the gods, but instead was the one who created the gods.
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As one of the elder races, dwarves know more about the Primordus, his minion the Great Destroyer, and their dragon kindred. Only a portion of that was written down in books such as the Tome of Rubicon, but the knowledge still survives elsewhere.
Something tells me the Forgotten and Charr know something of the Dragons. Or knew, I should say (at least in the case of the Charr). The Mursaat and Seers may also know something, as they may be as old as the other three.|||Quote:
My thoughts from the GW2Guru thread:
I think the "at least one of the items listed will be addressed" does not refer to the Asuran Banner. Yes, there will be more Asuran banners, and we'll be able to translate, but it won't be translated for us. I hope it is the GL which will be "addressed" and not Bahltek, though Linsey has said Bahltek will be talked about later on (this was said over a year ago I believe).
Something tells me that this is indeed the case, that there will be Norn worshiping Jormag.
Now that's interesting. Do you think that's because the Norn admire Jormag's power or whether he has some sort of psychic influence on some of them? He created the Nornbear, but we don't know any more of his powers.
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I am a sad panda, it seems we won't get the answer to this, at least in the initial release.
I read "unrevealed" as "we'll find out when the game comes out", hopefully we won't have to wait until future expansions.
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Now we have a slight clue on the Sylvari's belief and it seems that Renita (who talked to me on AIM about the religion of GW) seems to be right in that the Sylvari will be Agnostics.
But what is interesting here is two things:
Different type of their own animal spirits? Does this mean another patheon, or perhaps that they are different forms of the same gods? Much like the Avatars and the Facets are different forms of representation of the gods (or perhaps not so much representations as different forms of the gods themselves!).
I think this means that each nature spirit embodies different values for the Norn, just as each god embodies different values for humans (fire and war for balthazar, for example). They could just see human gods as nature spirits by a different name, or as an extension of their belief system.
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This makes me think two things:
- Either the Canthan expansion will lead to the "human homeland" (or it will go Cantha in one expansion, the homeland in another).
- That the location of "Utopia" might have been the "human homeland" and is located south of Cantha (As it seemed to be mostly human from the concept art we have of it, and also the most advance, it wouldn't seem too far fetched to think this, I think).
Although ANet said they would be reusing art and lore assets for Utopia for GW:EN and GW2, they did so mostly with the Tarnished Coast, I don't think they could really go for the Aztec vibe again. That said, there was a lot of concepts of time technology, they could probably work the lore of Utopia into GW2 somewhere.
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Though I question if Jeff meant the generations of "human gods" is not much older than the humans or if he meant the current generation we see, one thing is clear in that statement: Human arrival in Cantha isn't the oldest of humanity, and humanity may in fact be far older than we think (just to put a closer time difference between the True Gods and the Elder Dragons :p).
What is interesting is that it seems Glint is older than the gods, and was not a creation of them. Whether this means she is connected to the Elder Dragons, however, is unknown. (Glint created the gods and is far stronger than we believe her to be! lol jk)
The way I see it, dragons were "always here" and have a "cycle of awakening", in approx. In 10000BE GL become extinct, (possibly dragon-related?) then thousands of years later, Gods "arrive" (from where?), and humans "arrive" in land south of Cantha shortly after. Humans expand north, Gods settle in Arah, choosing the area because of the magical power of the sleeping dragon (which they are presumably unaware of) and the rest, as they say, is history.
Here's a thought, we always assumed the Exodus happened because of Abaddon's downfall, but we never fully understood why. Maybe it has something to do with Zhaitan?
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Orr, the answer to all questions. So the gods have harnessed the dragon's power, it seems. Due to their shape, it could be the joke above may be right, Glint created (or gave power to) the six (or seven, depending on the place of the Great Dwarf's deity-ness).
Random Theory: Glint was a sixth Elder Dragon, possibly the strongest of them all (this is unimportant), she was the only one who didn't go to hibernation. Instead, she created six powerful beings (or found six mortal and turned them into powerful beings) who became the gods, who then terraformed Tyria and started creating the world with various races. Meaning Glint was not the first creation of the gods, but instead was the one who created the gods.
Something tells me we shouldn't really be reading too far into the use of dragons as representations of the Gods in that quest. It was most likely a way of not having to create new character models, and it was convenient because of dragons associations with power and the draconic connections with GW2. Besides, we have physically seen a God (Abaddon), and we know he is not a dragon.
I don't think Glint created the Gods. There's no evidence to support this and I doubt Glint is capable of doing such a thing, considering her relatively weak powers. I also think she has some sort of connection to the elder dragons, (but as Grubb said that she may be a liar we've no way of determining this at the moment), but I do not think she was one of them. She is far weaker than them, and communicates with the races of Tyria. Despite what we've been led to believe about the dragons being mindless engines of destruction, they surely must have some sort of motivation, which would rule out any possibility of Glint having some conscientious objection to wiping out all life.
But we haven't seen the end of Glint yet. I wouldn't be surprised if her having children was setting the scene for something in GW2, and there's also the unanswered question of her taking the Scepter of Orr (which later showed up in Arah) at the end of Prophecies. Kuunavang was also briefly mentioned, I wonder if she has any relations to the elder dragons.
Also, what's the source for Glint being older than the Gods?
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Something tells me the Forgotten and Charr know something of the Dragons. Or knew, I should say (at least in the case of the Charr). The Mursaat and Seers may also know something, as they may be as old as the other three.
There's no evidence to suggest any of this, really. The Forgotten (from what we know) arrived with the Gods, so that rules that out. We don't actually know how old the Charr are - the History of Tyria and Ecology of the Charr seem to suggest they predate the Gods, however, the Ecology also states that gods "had been enemies to the Charr since the beginnings of history". Interestingly, History of Tyria also states that the gods gave all the races of Tyria magic, whilst the Ecology seems to imply this was only granted to the humans (at first, anyway, since the Charr possess magic now. It could be that the Charr were given magic by Abaddon via the Titans).
As for the Mursaat and Seers, it's possible, but we'd have no way of knowing, and it's best to avoid that sort of speculation for now.|||I like Konig's mortal gods theory. Of course, we also have to think about Dhuum and Menzies, so we'd have eight gods total (nine, depending on how the Great Dwarf got his power). I don't think Glint would have given power to these mortals - instead, something else must have, considering how Glint is (probably) a liar and covering up for the elder dragons (which she may be a caretaker for. Kuunavang, maybe?). It's quite a big mess to sort out.
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