Spirits

[:1]This is a thread I made a while back on Guru, and recently updated it. So I figured that I would post it up on here.

Version 2.0

Enjoy



First, there are a few stages of "Life," which is how I will split up my main argument on the topic. Each stage deals with a different type of body or location. The stages, as I have named them, are Mortal Life, Ghostly Life, and Afterworld Life. The reason why I got interested in this topic is because there is no information, at least that I can find, to deal with where they go after the "Afterworld Life."

Stage 1: Mortal Life

This stage is fairly simple and self-explanatory. It is the life of corporeal beings, with physical bodies. Basically their original life.

How I view this stage of life is that there is a physical body that traps (for lack of a better word) the soul and keeps it in the physical world. While it traps the soul, it also protects the soul, preventing any damage to it. The reason why I say "trap" is because the soul cannot freely leave the physical body, not like anyone would want it to of course.

As evidence by Shiro, it is possible to return to this stage, through use of magic, or more possibly through the help of a god. Because Shiro was able to return to his mortal body, something I now wonder is "Will we meet others who will return from the 'Ghostly Life' to the 'Mortal Life?'"

That is, other then Undead, which is the affect of Spirits being forced into dead bodies. Unlike Shiro, who simply took on flesh and bone from his spirit form.

I can't see anything else needing to be explained in this stage, so I'll move onto the second stage.

Stage 2: Ghostly Life

This stage is also a little self-explanatory. In this stage, souls that lost their bodies wonder the world, waiting to be taken to their afterlife destination (usually the Underworld, sometimes other realm of the gods). It is this stage that all of the souls in the world are in that do not have physical bodies (i.e. the spirits in the Crystal Desert, Desolation, Ascalon, etc.).

This stage can also be considered the stage for "Spirits who cannot find rest," as it is the same idea. Spirits here are simply waiting to move on, or unable to move on due to some regret or mistake regarding their "Mortal Life."

When under the order of the gods, it seems that spirits are allowed to travel between this stage and the next stage freely. Mostly evident by the Avatar of the gods (which mostly look like spirits, Lyssa and Kormir being the exception) and the Envoys (as they are the spirits of past criminals who have to shepherd the dead).



Stage 3: Afterworld Life

This stage, also being self-explanatory, is what I'm interested the most.

First, I will start off by saying that there seems to be two ways into this stage. The first being obvious, an Envoy takes the spirit to it's rightful destination. The second, which is one of the things that intrigued me on this topic, is that when you kill a ghost, it is sent to the underworld.

The evidence I have for this is the quest Refuse the King, mainly the reward dialogue. For time issues, I shall quote the reward dialogue.


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"Perhaps there is some good left in this world, for you turned down Jahnus at great risk to your life. That vile beast deserves whatever awaits him in the depths of the Underworld. I only wish it could have been I who cast down his spirit. The dead are grateful, my friend, and hope you will accept this token."




Seeing how those who take this quest has to kill the spirit of King Jahnus, and his spirit is sent to the Underworld, then that means that killing a spirit that is in the "Ghostly Stage" just sends it to the next life.

The thing that interests me the most, is what happens to the spirit if it is killed in the Rift, such as the Realm of Torment. The Lich and Shiro are perfect examples for this. After the player killed them in the Gate of Madness, as they were spirits, what happens to them?

Well, there are only three possibilities I can think of.

Possibility 1:

The spirit, when killed in the Rift, is reborn in that area. There could be some time between the "rebirth" of the soul, or it can be instantaneous, just in a different location. My reasoning for this is that many books I have read in the past claim, at least in their own story, that souls are indestructible, if that is the case for Guild Wars, then when you "kill a spirit" its location just simply changes.

Possibility 2:

When a spirit is killed in the Rift, it disappears forever. Again this idea is inspired by past books and shows that I have read/seen. In those stories, the idea is that the body protects the soul, but once the soul is removed, they are very fragile and can "break" with the slightest touch. But, in some of those same stories, once the soul enters the spirit world, or afterlife, whatever term you wish to use, then the soul becomes "less-fragile" due to being around the same substance as the soul itself. Of course, being less fragile does not mean that it cannot still just disappear.

Possibility 3:

The final possibility, would be when the spirit dies in the Rift, the "spirit energy," as one can call it, is absorbed into the Rift, or sent back to the Mist.

This idea was inspired by the Anime/Manga Bleach, which states that when the soul dies in the soul society or Hueco Mundo(The Hollow's world), the spirit becomes particles which is absorbed into the surrounding area, which creates more of the area.

Most Likely Possibility:

This idea seems to me to be the most probable of the possibilities, mainly due to the fact that seeing how long the "world of Tyria" has existed, and that other places exist with souls, that there is an scarcity of souls in places like the Underworld.

Of course, the outcome can depend on how the spirit dies. Such as just plain old killed, or if it is exorcized, or eaten by a demon, etc.

Alternative Death:



While a soul can be simply killed, there are many ways to die. One way is to be eaten by a demon, such as a Margonite. Along with what happens to a spirit when they die normally, we do not know what happens to a spirit when they are eaten.

According to the quests Vanishing Spirits, A Tasty Morsel, and The Growing Thread, it is known that Margonites and Torment Demons eat spirits as food.

What I see as the most likely thing to happen would be the same as the above "Possibility 2," the complete destruction of the soul. Similar to how when a Hollow from the Bleach show devours a soul, that soul is removed completely (or if "unfinished," corrupted, but that does not seem to happen as Kwalanah was "unfinished" and was not corrupted).



Summoned Spirits

Nature Spirits

This is a short and simple thing. Although they have the name "spirit" in them, they are not the same type of spirit as a soul. As their own name says, they are Nature Spirits, which are, technically, aspects of Nature, from winter to Favored Winds, they all bring about a different natural affect.

Binding Ritual Spirits

The quest Haunted actually helps explain where the spirits that Ritualists summon come from. Although not directly explained, it has spirits summoned with the names Anguish, Sorrow, and Regret, and those spirits are suffering from such things. It seems to me, that the spirits that are summoned are regular spirits, that are filled with a certain type of emotion (e.g. Pain, Anguish, etc). It also seems that the more the emotion is stuck in them, the stronger it is.

Now of course not all of the spirits have the emotion of the name, as Empowerment and the like are not emotions. But they have the intent to do what the spirit does, such as the intent to help, so they help in different ways.

In other words, the spirits that Ritualists summon are regular spirits that just take the form of those aspects, as they are bound to where they are summoned (other spirits are not bound, so they have the shape of their physical form).

Undeath

Basic Undead



As we all know, undead are dead bodies that have been animated. And of course, only a Necromancer can make an undead. True undead, not minions like what those of the *barely mentioned* "Order" of the Necromancers create, are created by attaching a soul to a dead body, creating an *usually* obedient servant.

This means that the spirit is trapped within the soul, forcing a second Mortal life on the spirit. When that body is killed *again*, the spirit would be released and move to the next stage, a Ghostly Life, until the spirit is taken to the Rift *specifically the Underworld* or is put into yet another dead body to create a new undead.

For more information on Undead generally and not undead and spirits, visit this thread. I may have to go back through and fix that thread up, just a warning.

Afflicted



Afflicted, despite their origins, are very much like undead, and can even be considered a sub-species of undead. They are created by Shiro when he does not move spirits to their destination. Whether they are spirits put into a body like other undead or are literally created by the plague and not Shiro's immediate actions, I have yet to find out.

So Afflicted are either a different type of Undead, or they are corrupted bodies and souls.

Shiro'Ken



Shiro'ken are also very much like Undead. Also created by Shiro like the Afflicted, these are only created by immediate actions by Shiro. In order to create Shiro'ken, he must take spirits and bind them to armor and other objects *the humanoid seem to be armor while the others seem to be statue or something of the like*.

So Shiro'ken are spirits that are bound to formerly inanimate objects, just as Undead are spirits that are bound to formerly inanimate bodies.

Liches



Liches are powerful magicians that casted a spell before they died that would preserve their spirit in their body. (Source) There are three known Liches - Vizier Khilbron aka The Lich Lord, Palawa Joko, and Zoldark - and of these liches, only one's origin is known. That being Khilbron, an Orrian Vizier who was corrupted by Abaddon and used an ancient scroll to destroy Orr which turned him into the lich. Joko's and Zoldark's origins are unknown as of now, and it seems that Zoldark will not be mentioned again in the future as he was just a side-boss that we killed *supposedly, it is unknown if he, like Joko and Khilbron, can reanimate himself*.

As I just stated, Palawa Joko and Vizier Khilbron can both reanimate themselves upon death. That is, their souls do not leave their bodies. This is the main thing that separates a "True Lich" from the powerful Undead that lead others. It is because of this, that Zoldark may not be a "True Lich," but just a powerful undead. It is also known that "True Liches" have to be killed in a very specific way, such as how we kill Khilbron.

Undead Dragon



Sadly, very little is known about the Undead Dragon residing under Orr. But what is known is that it is able to change both living and dead into draconic undead servants. This implies that the Undead Dragon acts very similar to that of a "True Lich".|||Okay, *cough*.


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In this stage, souls that lost their bodies wonder the world, waiting to be taken to their afterlife destination (usually the Underworld, sometimes other realm of the gods). It is this stage that all of the souls in the world are in that do not have physical bodies (i.e. the spirits in the Crystal Desert, Desolation, Ascalon, etc.).




I personally think that the souls in this stage are not waiting to be taken to the afterlife, but are rather forced to stay in the physical world for a little bit longer. This can be by an uncompleted task that they still have to fulfill, they can be bound to an Undead body by a Lich, they can be summoned by rituals, etc. If they would be waiting it would be unrealistic that Gwen's mother who died several years ago would be in the Afterlife phase and the ghosts in the Crystal Desert who had been dead for ages wouldn't.

The Avatars of the Gods are a different story, they are in my opinion just energies that are send by the Gods to reflect their appearance in the mortal world. Lyssa's Muse is for example just a representation of Lyssa's personality in our world.|||Quote:








they can be summoned by rituals




I knew I forgot something in my revision of this. Looks like I'll have to add yet another part sometime.


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I personally think that the souls in this stage are not waiting to be taken to the afterlife, but are rather forced to stay in the physical world for a little bit longer. This can be by an uncompleted task that they still have to fulfill, they can be bound to an Undead body by a Lich, they can be summoned by rituals, etc. If they would be waiting it would be unrealistic that Gwen's mother who died several years ago would be in the Afterlife phase and the ghosts in the Crystal Desert who had been dead for ages wouldn't.




Depending on how the person died, and a few other things, ghosts can be forced to linger from a sense of unfulfillment. Like you said. The undead thing is a different story, which I said later down, as is the summoned by rituals, which I forgot to put it *I will get to it sometime today or tomarrow or something. In a sense they are still waiting, but they don't want to go just yet because they want to take care of something first. These are called restless spirits. Which I thought I mentioned, but I guess I didn't.

Looking above, I realize I did mention it, but worded it somewhat poorly.


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This stage can also be considered the stage for "Spirits who cannot find rest," as it is the same idea. Spirits here are simply waiting to move on, or unable to move on due to some regret or mistake regarding their "Mortal Life."




Basically a reword of what I said, they are technically still waiting but cannot move on because they want to finish something. Most of the ghosts in the Desolation and Crystal Desert simply regret dying so fast and want to reunite with their friends/family *some you help and guess what, they disappear!* and/or they are wishing to help Turai Ossa into the HoH, which lore-wise I think is done when we ascend *going by the dialogue of Turrai in Amnoon Oasis*


Quote:




The Avatars of the Gods are a different story, they are in my opinion just energies that are send by the Gods to reflect their appearance in the mortal world. Lyssa's Muse is for example just a representation of Lyssa's personality in our world.




Lyssa's Muse does look like it would be a bundle of energy, not a ghost, however the other 5 do look like they would be ghosts, so this is simply personal opinion. The fact still stands that they are allowed to transverse through the different worlds via the Mists.|||Another epic thread Azazel? This one is wonderful also.|||For those who care, I added a section for Nature Spirits *the ones summoned by rangers* and Binding Rituals *spirits summoned by Ritualists*.