I. Physics
Sorry, but I need to turn this into a physics class for a bit, if you feel you know enough, feel free to skip to part II. If not, I’ll try to keep this simple and short.
First, we only focus on one thing with Physics here: Energy. And there is one undeniable rule – even in religion – that exists: Energy cannot turn into “nothing,” and likewise, “nothing” cannot turn into energy (or “something”). Kinetic Energy (i.e., movement, actions) turns into Potential Energy (lack of movement), and vice versa. In a perfect simulation, you could have a ball swinging back and forth on a rope forever. But energy has other outputs – heat and sound are the two biggest.
Heat is constant, transferring from one object to another, one molecule to another. If cold molecules touch hot molecules, the heat transfers over. This is why a seat is warm after you sit in it for a long time.
Sound is irrelevant to this to be honest, so I’ll leave it out.
There are multiple sources of energy, each source getting energy from something else – an endless cycle. No origin, no end (this is where Monotheism fails in logic and points its finger at “God”)
If you get that, it should be enough. If you don’t get the sound, that’s fine, this is just to make things easier.
II. Energy
Now then, we go to energy, the most important thing when wanting to do just about anything. In most games, energy is split into two things: “Mana” and “Stamina” – that’s all fine and dandy, but due to game mechanics, GW forgets about stamina (some can argue that it is replaced with adrenaline – well, kind of) and simply calls mana energy. For the sake simplicity, we’ll call the blue bar “mana.”
Now, you’ll all know, I’m sure, that when you use magic or a skill of any kind they need energy or adrenaline. Now, in the case of adrenaline (and stamina), that is the energy for movement and movement alone. “Mana” on the other hand is used for both movement (stances, traps, attack skills, and some “skill”s) and magic (spells and some “skill”s).
You notice, as you use “mana” it decreases immediately, but it slowly regains constantly. This is just game mechanic, in lore, it would act the same as health does in game mechanics. Initially not moving, but after a while, slowly gains up (as one rests).
III. Basic Magic
Now, we all know magic right? It’s that thing that makes objects float, bursts things on fire, or freezes things, and does a whole bunch of other things. The actual source of this is unknown, but believed to be the Mists. But that’s for later.
Anyways, we go to the basics of magic. You’re probably wondering why I had that short little physics lesson. Well, here we go:
If you want something to levitate, you need to add more potential energy, in order to get that potential energy, the kinetic energy must come from somewhere – which would be your own energy or more specifically, one’s “mana.” For it to keep floating, energy would have to be constantly used as long as there is no support. Which is why when you see a person levitating something, it is not long lasting (usually).
In the case of say, freezing or burning something, you are changing the amount of heat. This means you are speeding up the process of the heat passing to something else. For freezing, this is easy. But for burning, you need to create the fire as well. Well, pyromancy or pyrokinesis is just a complex form of telemancy or telekinesis (some will say they are the same thing, both caused by the “mind” – but this goes far out of lore and into debating on psionics, which, to be honest, would be the “modern” form of magic). Creating fire would be done by re-arranging the very atoms and molecules within the air. Similarly, this can be done to create just about any object or substance from fire and ice, to lightning and soil (no matter the hardness or type).
Thus, the Elementalist is easily explained. Monks (and Restoration Ritualists) are just as easy to explain. Through the manipulation of objects, one can create flesh by, once more, moving and changing atoms and molecules.
IV. Intermediate Magic
Then we get to the harder to explain magic: Curses, Illusions, and Summons (a.k.a. teleportation).
Let us focus on illusions. By theory, they are the tempering of the mind. However, in practice, they can also be seen as the tempering of the very nerves of the human body. When you touch, smell, taste, hear, or see something (basically, when your senses register something), they go through nerves. If the nerves were affected, your senses would be changed. If magic can change the very molecules and atoms, what stops them from changing and affecting the chemicals that are released by nerves to trick the mind? Nothing, as long as the affecter has the energy.
As for “domination magic” and curses (and some other necrotic spells), these two, which inflict direct pain onto the user – sometimes in the form of conditions - is he exact opposite of healing by a Monk. Where one side creates flesh, the other removes flesh, changing its substance into something else – possibly something painful, or something which has no harm to others.
Then we possibly get the most annoying of the magic: Holy, Chaos, and Dark. Well, maybe not that annoying. Just like the elements, these types of magical damage are just a different “substance” – though one which does not exist in reality (as far as humans know). One may simply be able to categorize them as fifth, sixth, and seventh elements, or as atomic substances used in extremely large scale. The annoyance of them is due to them being completely fictitious to reality, and thus cannot be explained in any other way aside from another “new” substance or direct acts of some “dues ex machina” affect.
Then, the last magic (if I missed any, let me know and I’ll update the thread – don’t think I did though) would be “summoning” or “teleportation” such as a Ritualist summoning spirits, or traveling through a portal. The answer is just simply stolen from “scientific theory” – the “demolecorization” and “remolecorization” of people or substances. That is, for teleportation through different planes of existence.
One could argue that self-teleportation would just be moving at an extremely fast speed (this would actually be correct in all teleportation, but teleportation which requires going through and not around other things would mean the above).
Now, I know I’ll get yelled at this with “that’s science fiction!” or something if I don’t say now: If you truly think about it, science and magic achieve the same thing, the same actions, but through difference sources of energy. When you get down to the very basics, wouldn’t a flame thrower be changing gasoline and oxygen into fire – and say “immolation” would be changing air into fire? Same actions and outcomes but there are different methods and/or sources of energy for the actions and outcomes.
V. Magical Objects
Prime example of a magical object would be signets – which are symbols, usually engraved into rings. But all of these are easily explained. The objects, much like a body, are just a catalyst of holding in magic, and thus energy. There are two things which differentiate objects from living creatures for use of holding energy:
- They do not exert energy until tapped by another source, so the amount of magic never diminishes, and would be seen as the most ample source of storing magic. Though, living beings can, while using energy, also gain energy to replace the used energy – and possibly even increase the amount of energy within them.
- Depending on the substance, they could hold more or less than a living creature of the same size. Throughout references in magic, one kind of substance stands out in “magical conductivity” than all others: reflective substances. This can be water, ice, crystals, glass, anything with a true reflection (this means, if you polish something, it won’t be any more conductive for magic). This appears to be the case in Guild Wars as well (to some degree), as shown in Gmr Leon’s research and through various dialogues, such as from Vekk in the “At the Bloodstone” cinematic during the “Finding the Bloodstone” mission – where he says a crystal is safer than a jar to extract and store magic.
Do note that the bloodstones would be considered objects which contain a vast amount of magic – which also disperse the magic into the surrounding area. The bloodstones, having to limit the amount of magic used in the whole world of Tyria, would most likely be enchanted to continuously draw in magic, but in effect, it would also have to disperse it. Originally, the magic was dispersed into lava and the Ring of Fire Island Chain, but eventually went into the areas which the bloodstones landed. Why lava? Why the water in the Maguuma? It is because they conduct magic more than other substances in the area. The believed-to-be Aggression bloodstone in Bloodstone caves’ magic goes into the air (so it seems) and then into creatures. This is another instance of magic not just “disappearing.” The Maguuma Bloodstone sends magic into the soul batteries and into the water, which is constantly traveling, feeding creatures and plants alike. Eventually the water (should) reach the sea and disperse to such a wide amount of area it has little affect, thus effectively dispersing energy without “using” it or making it “disappear.” The Ring of Fire bloodstone’s magic goes into keeping the Door of Komalie sealed, which repels things from going through on either side (also the “jade” floats there, also a constant use of potential energy) thus using up the energy and it not just disappearing (floating objects and forcing creatures back ->energy to movement).
Thus, the only known object to constantly absorb magic, also constantly dispersed magic.
VI. Otherworldy Things
Other things which are hard to explain with the use would be things like alternate dimensions (prime example: the Rift and Mists) and incorporeal creatures (prime example: Spirits).
Some would say, due to the closeness of the Rift to the Mists (which is disputed to be the source of magic) that it would have less to do with physics than anywhere else. Again, this is wrong. Magic can only add onto physics, not change it. However, due to the closeness (or being in the very location of) the “source” of magic and life, it would appear that physics hold little grasp on these locations. All it really means, is that more can be done through magic, nothing more.
Spirits, to keep things simple, would be made of a different kind of molecule (that is, as different sulfur is from oxygen), and a kind of “distance” between the atoms that puts the substance between liquid and solid, a “non-solid solid” if you will. In that, if focused, it can interact with solids, but can also go “through” solids (or more specifically, solids can go through it), but no matter what keeps a semi-definite shape. A “semi-definite” shape meaning that, while the shape can change a little, it would, generally, stay the same shape. Similar to a water-balloon – you can squeeze it, changing its shape, but it usually returns to how it originally was.
The Mists, the supposed source of magic, also needs to gain energy from a source. This source would be spirits. As I stated in my old Spirits theory, I believe spirits to get sent to the Rift (the afterlife as some may say) when "killed" in other realms (living realms, as one may call them), and when killed in the Rift, they particles of the soul would return to the Mists, giving the Mists energy to spend to other things, such as new life, and magic.
Do Note: I am not saying all this is fact, but my explanation (thus theory) for how magic and physics do co-exist. And yes, the last portion is more of a hypothesis. While writing this, I got another theory to add onto the use of magic, but that is off-topic from this.
I have a feeling where I started to ramble at some points, sorry bout that, wrote this when it came to my mind (didn’t want to forget) which was at five in the morning.|||Although I agree with most of what has been said, there are a couple of reservations that I still have, but I'll go into that as Sion as I get access to something more capable than my phone
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Most that give their opinion think that physics are in place except where magic comes into play. This is incorrect.
By your opinion.
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If you want something to levitate, you need to add more potential energy, in order to get that potential energy, the kinetic energy must come from somewhere � which would be your own energy or more specifically, one�s �mana.� For it to keep floating, energy would have to be constantly used as long as there is no support.
Another way would be to have materials that have a lower density than the air, as shown by certain gases in balloons. If you just want it to float in place, it'd probably need to be a certain density, so that it will float, while not floating beyond into the sky. That aside, the problem isn't so much that it's impossible, it's that in the instances seen in Tyria there isn't anything supporting the floating structures, but there they are, floating, without any semblance of an obvious energy source in constant use, or constantly supplying the floating structures.
Which begs the question of, where is the energy coming from? Even my theory on water's magical conductivity doesn't completely explain this. Sure, when the water's falling the particles are excited, possibly irradiating the surrounding area with magical energy causing the stones to float, thus giving it a possible magical energy source. The problem, of course, being that there isn't a waterfall in sight around the Wizard's Tower.
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Creating fire would be done by re-arranging the very atoms and molecules within the air.
Er..Last I checked, it would just be by raising the kinetic energy of the atoms and molecules. As temperature in general is just the average kinetic energy of atoms and molecules within an object. In reducing the kinetic energy, an object becomes cooler, and in increasing, it becomes hotter. Unless you're meaning rearranging the atoms and molecules within the air to make a more flammable, and thus easier to ignite, gas.
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Through the manipulation of objects, one can create flesh by, once more, moving and changing atoms and molecules.
Ignoring the fact that moving and changing atoms in such a way isn't that easy at all. One of those key reasons magic is admired or desired.
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Then, the last magic (if I missed any, let me know and I�ll update the thread � don�t think I did though) would be �summoning� or �teleportation� such as a Ritualist summoning spirits, or traveling through a portal. The answer is just simply stolen from �scientific theory� � the �demolecorization� and �remolecorization� of people or substances. That is, for teleportation through different planes of existence.
Except that we don't see anything or hear anything that suggests this. It just appears to be like walking through a doorway, in most instances. You'd think they'd take the opportunity for Vekk to mention that as a joke towards the player, "By the way, you were just torn to pieces and reassembled as you went through that gate." Alas, missed opportunities.
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There are two things which differentiate objects from living creatures for use of holding energy:
[list=1][*]They do not exert energy until tapped by another source, so the amount of magic never diminishes, and would be seen as the most ample source of storing magic.
Which almost seems to be the deal with the Ancient Dragons, at least in the case of Drakkar. As it did not exert any energy until it was tapped into by another source, Svanir.
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and possibly even increase the amount of energy within them.
As in the case of the mortal-to-God/Goddess transition.
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Some would say, due to the closeness of the Rift to the Mists (which is disputed to be the source of magic) that it would have less to do with physics than anywhere else. Again, this is wrong. Magic can only add onto physics, not change it. However, due to the closeness (or being in the very location of) the �source� of magic and life, it would appear that physics hold little grasp on these locations. All it really means, is that more can be done through magic, nothing more.
Hm..Just joking around here, but by that logic, we could do more through physics if we got closer to a black hole..Black holes, a physicists' playground.
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Spirits, to keep things simple, would be made of a different kind of molecule (that is, as different sulfur is from oxygen), and a kind of �distance� between the atoms that puts the substance between liquid and solid, a �non-solid solid� if you will. In that, if focused, it can interact with solids, but can also go �through� solids (or more specifically, solids can go through it), but no matter what keeps a semi-definite shape. A �semi-definite� shape meaning that, while the shape can change a little, it would, generally, stay the same shape. Similar to a water-balloon � you can squeeze it, changing its shape, but it usually returns to how it originally was.
I think the word you're looking for is plasma. That's the best word to describe their matter. It's not exactly a liquid, nor a gas, but a weird sort of solid-liquid mixture.|||Quote:
By your opinion. :p
The earliest mention I know of magic in relation to physics is by Quintus (which was that magic defies physics). But do note, I said "Most that give their opinion" - this is merely an observation, and I have never once seen someone say magic is just an extension of the laws of physics.
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Another way would be to have materials that have a lower density than the air, as shown by certain gases in balloons. If you just want it to float in place, it'd probably need to be a certain density, so that it will float, while not floating beyond into the sky. That aside, the problem isn't so much that it's impossible, it's that in the instances seen in Tyria there isn't anything supporting the floating structures, but there they are, floating, without any semblance of an obvious energy source in constant use, or constantly supplying the floating structures.
Which begs the question of, where is the energy coming from? Even my theory on water's magical conductivity doesn't completely explain this. Sure, when the water's falling the particles are excited, possibly irradiating the surrounding area with magical energy causing the stones to float, thus giving it a possible magical energy source. The problem, of course, being that there isn't a waterfall in sight around the Wizard's Tower.
Changing the density of an object would also work, and would probably be the "easier method" of doing such. However, doing that is also the harder to accomplish method, as if things levitate, they don't seem to lose their weight, thus it is just potential energy which is changed, not density.
As for where energy comes from, it depends on the source.
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Er..Last I checked, it would just be by raising the kinetic energy of the atoms and molecules. As temperature in general is just the average kinetic energy of atoms and molecules within an object. In reducing the kinetic energy, an object becomes cooler, and in increasing, it becomes hotter. Unless you're meaning rearranging the atoms and molecules within the air to make a more flammable, and thus easier to ignite, gas.
It would, in essence, be either or, or both. Depends on the job at hand.
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Ignoring the fact that moving and changing atoms in such a way isn't that easy at all. One of those key reasons magic is admired or desired.
Just because that is how it is done, doesn't mean the person knows they are doing such a thing. In most instances, if people think of how they want their magic done, they just think "a ball of fire" or "heal this wound" - they don't think "change the air atoms to carbon and other atoms in the human body and connect them to the skin and blood vessels and muscles of this body." I was explaining how it is done in physical sense, not a mental sense. Going any further would go into my next theory, more or less, though.
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Except that we don't see anything or hear anything that suggests this. It just appears to be like walking through a doorway, in most instances. You'd think they'd take the opportunity for Vekk to mention that as a joke towards the player, "By the way, you were just torn to pieces and reassembled as you went through that gate." Alas, missed opportunities.
Kind of like above, even by use, one may not understand what is actually happening. You need to ask "how much do they know of molecules, atoms, bacteria" - my guess, very little.
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Which almost seems to be the deal with the Ancient Dragons, at least in the case of Drakkar. As it did not exert any energy until it was tapped into by another source, Svanir.
As in the case of the mortal-to-God/Goddess transition.
This, unfortunately, goes into the next theory, which is going just past the line of off-topic in this thread. So, until I write it out!
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I think the word you're looking for is plasma. That's the best word to describe their matter. It's not exactly a liquid, nor a gas, but a weird sort of solid-liquid mixture.
or "ectoplasma" - Yes, I did temporarily forget of that, and yes, that would be the substance of them. Plasma, if anything, would be a "non-solid solid."|||Note: Including a few bits from his responses to other quoted posts from Guru, due to thinking my responses hold some ideas that are worth being seen here.
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Magic may not be natural to tyria, but it is natural to the universe. Everything in magic we see does not defy rules of physics, just adds onto it and appears to defy this. Why the Ancient Dragons have a large amount of magical ability goes to my second theory.
Although, one could easily say that humans are narrow-minded on Tyria, as they still think Tyria was the first world ever created. It could just as easily be that somehow they introduced magic across all of the Mists, in the form of giving others the ability to actually tap into and manipulate it, something which would appear to have been restricted to the Gods prior to this. Another way of looking at it may simply be a sudden evolutionary jump in everything, but only in their brains, going by your outlook on it.
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If one absorbs magic, they can only hold a certain amount, after which they will either be forced to emit magic or they will be destroyed. This would be the case for energy as a whole. It is naturally impossible for an object to hold more energy than it can withstand. This is where the idea of exploding heads from (usually radiation) waves comes from. One way of thinking, is that magic is a force that can make radiation, and not "is like radiation." If you understand what I mean.
The main point: Radiation is a thing. Magic is an action of controlling things. Think of it as "an extension of the body."
Despite having a decent amount of knowledge regarding physics, I still don't think that's completely true. That an object or entity can only contain a certain amount of energy, emitting it in a certain form, or they will be destroyed. I think it depends entirely on the way the energy is injected or utilized with the entity or within the entity. For instance, in the case of teleportation, it requires a huge amount of energy to split a person into each individual atom, and then reassemble them on the other side properly.
The energy involved is merely manipulated to interact with the body in a different manner. Although, there's another, quantum idea, I think it is, that's much cooler, but takes just as much effort. That's off-topic though.
Also, about the radiation thing that, at least in my opinion, you're doing a not-so-great job of explaining..I think you mean magic is like a stream of electrons. That is to say, like an electron, it acts both as a particle (solid magical attack, i.e. meteorites, ice, etc.), and a wave (radiating magic, etc.), which acts as both a particle at times, and as a wave at others, the wave being the radiation if I'm not mistaken. In short, as one manipulates the Mists, it would be more or less manipulating the particles to act in a certain manner, particles in one, waves in others. I would say that when one manipulates it in the wave form, is when one utilizes the Mesmer's form of magic, such as stealing information and magical energy itself.
However, the key problem here, is that the particles they're manipulating are not just the Mists, as far as we know. They interact with matter and air, which, I suppose, we must assume has the same composition as our universe's matter and air. That is to say, electron, proton, neutron, etc.
So, the question then becomes, is the Mists an energy source, a gigantic array of unconscious understanding of the physical properties of the universe that one uplinks to to enact their "magic" or, is it both all at once?
Yeah..Extension of the mind would have been much better, as while the mind is, at least theoretically if I'm not mistaken, a byproduct of neural processes in the brain, it's literally an alternate entity in Tyria. Tyria, unlike our world as far as we know, is dualistic. Mind and body are separate. Well, soul and body, I guess would be the proper terminology. Soul remains synonymous to mind, in my opinion, but that's beside the point.
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In a way, magic is infinite, but only because magic is not a "thing" but an "action." The "source" of magic may come from the Mists, but the Mists cannot give energy, which would include magic, or create something without spending energy. In order to spend energy, it must gain energy, thus my theory that spirits, once "destroyed" gives the Mists this energy comes into play.
Probably just the way it's written, but the way you have to spend energy, it must gain energy, just clicks in my head as, as soon as energy is spent, it must immediately gain energy. Which I know is probably not what you're saying. [Also, I wouldn't be so quick to say the Mists cannot give energy. By the very act of creation of living organisms, it is in part providing energy for their life. The downside being that it doesn't continually provide energy in the sense of life support.] And those last three sentences might as well be junk, as I was only reading a part and not the whole of that sentence.
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The earliest mention I know of magic in relation to physics is by Quintus (which was that magic defies physics). But do note, I said "Most that give their opinion" - this is merely an observation, and I have never once seen someone say magic is just an extension of the laws of physics.
I could have sworn he once suggested the same thing you're suggesting now, though..
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Changing the density of an object would also work, and would probably be the "easier method" of doing such. However, doing that is also the harder to accomplish method, as if things levitate, they don't seem to lose their weight, thus it is just potential energy which is changed, not density.
As for where energy comes from, it depends on the source.
...And that last part still remains the problem. Also, you would mean "as if things levitate, they don't seem to lose their mass" as a change in density would either be a Δm or ΔV. We can at least observe the volume, and while we can't be certain, it doesn't appear to have been altered. So, it would seem that the mass must have been altered in some way to decrease the overall density.
Remember, weight is just the exertion of gravity on mass. :p And since the gravitational field in the area doesn't appear to be altered, (we're not constantly floating around, for instance, as I imagine it would need to be dramatically altered for the stones to float) it must be what I noted above.
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It would, in essence, be either or, or both. Depends on the job at hand.
As I thought.
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Just because that is how it is done, doesn't mean the person knows they are doing such a thing. In most instances, if people think of how they want their magic done, they just think "a ball of fire" or "heal this wound" - they don't think "change the air atoms to carbon and other atoms in the human body and connect them to the skin and blood vessels and muscles of this body." I was explaining how it is done in physical sense, not a mental sense. Going any further would go into my next theory, more or less, though.
Which is now making me wonder if my "gigantic array of unconscious understanding" is close to touching on that.
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Kind of like above, even by use, one may not understand what is actually happening. You need to ask "how much do they know of molecules, atoms, bacteria" - my guess, very little.
Actually, they might know quite a bit about bacteria, as Necromancers tend to utilize it quite a bit. And, well, they study the dead, they probably have a far more intimate understanding of decaying flesh and the bacteria involved than one would expect. Molecules and atoms, though, yeah, probably not so much. I don't think they have the instruments to study either.
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